TJ Rubicon vs. TJ Sport or X?

[Jerry Bransford]

Here is a non-easy question. How difficult and expensive would it be to swap out both axles for Dana 44's in the future?

Easy, though the front axle doesn't really need to be replaced with a Dana 44. Why? The front axle seldom sees more than 50% of the load the rear axle does. For 99.99% of us a front Dana 30 is fine, or if it's not it's easily made so with nothing more than 4359 chromoly replacement axle shafts which are relatively easily installed and not expensive.

 

[Tonopah]

"I personally wouldn't touch a 2005 or 2006 TJ." I shudder a bit every time I hear you say that...so far, my 2005 LJ auto is doing fine and I am happy...but then you say that again in yet another thread and I worry...!!

 

[BobK]

Yet another wrinkle, but a good one.... I just found another local Jeep TJ X for even less $$$ ($8k) while it has an automatic transmission (4 speed versus the 2001 3 speed) it also has 208,000 miles versus 80,000 miles. It appears to need the rear main seal replaced too, but I've heard that is common for a TJ. The question is, in general what is the life span of a 4 liter engine? I've read the stories of the 600k Jeep engine, but realistically what kind of costs am I looking at to re-build or replace the engine?

 

[RangerRick]

No mention of the actual prices here so can't really help you.

You can spend way more than $5K on axles with lockers, 4:1 transfer case and a decent suspension kit guaranteed EVEN IF YOU'RE A DEALER/DISTRIBUTOR.

For the record, the Nth* mobility lift kit is a very good kit considering it's age. I ran one of the first ever sold to us dealers back in 2005 and never really had much trouble with it ever. 85K mixed miles put on that Jeep with the Nth* kit and as long as maintinance was kept up on, it would keep on going. A few minor things I changed on it but overall, A very durable system even for a guy who played on the Con, Fordyce and out in JV a lot...... For a bolt on kit, it was a pretty good one and still better than a lot of the stuff out today regardless.

Note: The labor to install a top end kit of any kind is worth potentially a couple grand and a lotta time.....


Be careful, you may spend a lot more on the non Rubi to get it up to anywhere near as capable.

That said, If you see 1-Tons and an Atlas II TC someday in your future............ Skip the Rubi's all together.

RR

 

[BobK]

Here is a summary of my three alternatives for a base to build up (bumpers, new winch, decent lift kit, new tires and wheels)

2006 TJ Rubicon, 85k miles, Nth Degree long arm lift, winch, wilderness rack, bead lock wheels, belt driven air compressor, heat exchange trail shower kit, 33x12.5 tires (need replaced soon), 4 speed automatic, no oil drips, red paint, soft top - $15k asking. Notes: don't want the bead locks, air compressor, or trail shower, all to be removed.

2003 TJ Sport, 80k miles, generic lift kit, 33x12.5 tires (good shape), dripping oil from rear main seal. clean/straight body, 4 speed automatic, yellow paint, soft top - $11k asking. Notes: Clean, low mileage, less $$$, not a lot to be removed prior to upgrading, needs rear main seal, and valve cover gasket replaced.

2001 TJ X, 208,000 miles, generic lift, 33" tires, interior clean, body looks clean and straight, dripping oil from rear main seal, 3 speed automatic, black paint, newer soft top, - $9k asking. Notes: Clean, a bit sun faded, needs rear main seal replaced.

 

[jazngab]

Here is a summary of my three alternatives for a base to build up (bumpers, new winch, decent lift kit, new tires and wheels)

2006 TJ Rubicon, 85k miles, Nth Degree long arm lift, winch, wilderness rack, bead lock wheels, belt driven air compressor, heat exchange trail shower kit, 33x12.5 tires (need replaced soon), 4 speed automatic, no oil drips, red paint, soft top - $15k asking. Notes: don't want the bead locks, air compressor, or trail shower, all to be removed.

2003 TJ Sport, 80k miles, generic lift kit, 33x12.5 tires (good shape), dripping oil from rear main seal. clean/straight body, 3 speed automatic, yellow paint, soft top - $11k asking. Notes: Clean, low mileage, less $$$, not a lot to be removed prior to upgrading, needs rear main seal, and valve cover gasket replaced.

2001 TJ X, 208,000 miles, generic lift, 33" tires, interior clean, body looks clean and straight, dripping oil from rear main seal, 4 speed automatic, black paint, newer soft top, - $9k asking. Notes: Clean, a bit sun faded, needs rear main seal replaced.

Assuming all three are fairly rust free and frames are a non issue, I’d try to get the 2003 X for $10k.

 

[Ron Hall]

Decisions, decisions...... So I have looked at a 2005 TJ Rubi with 124k miles, a 2006 TJ Rubi with 84k miles and both are in great body shape (Texas Jeeps) and both engines seem to run strong. Neither have rust, both are already lifted, the 2005 with a lift kit and Bilstein shocks, and the 2006 with a Nth Degree long arm lift kit, both have 33 x 12.5 tires, although the tires on the 2006 would barely pass inspection with the limited trend depth.

Now enters the confusing part. I found 2001 TJ Sport that is in excellent shape body wise and the engine seems to run strong, no rust, interior is dirty, but otherwise in good shape. Tires are BFG KO2's 33 x 12.5's and in good shape. It does have a small oil leak. I see a bit of oil coming from under the valve cover and a drip from the oil pan, neither of which alarm me. I do see oil coming from the gasket between the engine and transmission. The leaks are small, but my wife has a zero tolerance policy for oil leaks in the driveway, so they are something that would need to be addressed on Day Zero. It is an excellent platform for me to upgrade.

Can anyone talk me into or out of a Sport? I've never rock crawled but have done some off road trails, etc. so being able to traverse a boulder strewn ravine in likely not in the cards for the TJ, but would still like solid off road performance. Did I mention that the Sport is $5000 cheaper than either Rubi?

Bob

A valve cover gasket and a rear main oil seal are certainly no more challenging than those customization project you listed. Utube video’s are there to guide your way. Attention to cleaning detail, following instructions to the letter, and using the right tools will help you do quality work.

 

[glwood]

Here is a summary of my three alternatives for a base to build up (bumpers, new winch, decent lift kit, new tires and wheels)

2006 TJ Rubicon, 85k miles, Nth Degree long arm lift, winch, wilderness rack, bead lock wheels, belt driven air compressor, heat exchange trail shower kit, 33x12.5 tires (need replaced soon), 4 speed automatic, no oil drips, red paint, soft top - $15k asking. Notes: don't want the bead locks, air compressor, or trail shower, all to be removed.

2003 TJ Sport, 80k miles, generic lift kit, 33x12.5 tires (good shape), dripping oil from rear main seal. clean/straight body, 3 speed automatic, yellow paint, soft top - $11k asking. Notes: Clean, low mileage, less $$$, not a lot to be removed prior to upgrading, needs rear main seal, and valve cover gasket replaced.

2001 TJ X, 208,000 miles, generic lift, 33" tires, interior clean, body looks clean and straight, dripping oil from rear main seal, 4 speed automatic, black paint, newer soft top, - $9k asking. Notes: Clean, a bit sun faded, needs rear main seal replaced.

There's something wrong with your details for the two last TJs listed. 2003 came with a 4-speed 42RLE automatic, and 2001 came with the 32RH 3-speed auto. Your list has them switched as far as what came on those years.

Those who've run both prefer the 32RH. The .69 OD in the 42RLE creates it's own issues. The tranny is fine, the OD sucks.

Edit: maybe it's the 2001 & 2003 years you have switched...

 

[billiebob]

I found 2001 TJ Sport that is in excellent shape body wise and the engine seems to run strong, no rust, interior is dirty, but otherwise in good shape. Tires are BFG KO2's 33 x 12.5's and in good shape. It does have a small oil leak. I see a bit of oil coming from under the valve cover and a drip from the oil pan, neither of which alarm me. I do see oil coming from the gasket between the engine and transmission. The leaks are small, but my wife has a zero tolerance policy for oil leaks in the driveway, so they are something that would need to be addressed on Day Zero. It is an excellent platform for me to upgrade.

You are mixing up the details in your later posts but this would be my top choice. I assume this is the 3speed automatic. With 80K miles. Rust free, low miles, best auto in a 4x4. And 33s for free. A great starting point.

 

[BobK]

There's something wrong with your details for the two last TJs listed. 2003 came with a 4-speed 42RLE automatic, and 2001 came with the 32RH 3-speed auto. Your list has them switched as far as what came on those years.

Those who've run both prefer the 32RH. The .69 OD in the 42RLE creates it's own issues. The tranny is fine, the OD sucks.

Edit: maybe it's the 2001 & 2003 years you have switched...

Thank you, you are exactly correct and I have edited my original post.

 

[BobK]

You are mixing up the details in your later posts but this would be my top choice. I assume this is the 3speed automatic. With 80K miles. Rust free, low miles, best auto in a 4x4. And 33s for free. A great starting point.

Thank you, you are exactly correct and I have edited my original post.

I am leaning towards the Sport with less miles and less takes offs. But the Rubicon is tempting for the axles and the skids plates and no leaks.

 

[billiebob]

But the Rubicon is tempting

Rubicons are built for rock crawling. I have a TJR and I hate the 4:1 Transfer case. IF you want to crawl it is fabulous but for anything else the Sport box with 2.72:1 reduction is a far better choice.

 

[jazngab]

Thank you, you are exactly correct and I have edited my original post.

I am leaning towards the Sport with less miles and less takes offs. But the Rubicon is tempting for the axles and the skids plates and no leaks.

In that case, I vote which ever the one w 80k miles minimal mods and minor leaks.

 

[RangerRick]

If you buy the 2006, I would be interested in the trail heat exchange shower takeoff.
The OBA if it is York compressor based will sell for good $$ from anyone who's had experience with them vs. electric air compressors except the Oasis brand which is basically like York OBA.

As said by others, fairly certain you have your transmissions mixed up on #2 & 3.

If it were me having had 12 Jeeps since the 80's in order of desirable rigs to own:

#1 cause it's the lowest mileage and cleanest with no leaks or "must fix immediately" going on there. Not saying it's the best deal monetarily speaking but it is the nicest of the lot PERIOD. Get it for around $13K it would be a "buy".

#2 the 2003 if it really is, price is subjective to the area of the country but looking all over id say $7,500 it would be a "buy" but you better have carfax or background on all of these to make sure. You will have to fix leaks soon.

#3 A Jeep of any kind with over 200K is worth whatever the seller can get. By most standards it's considered OLD and past prime. That said, look for bargains around the $3-5K range maximum unless there's something that just makes it a spectacular stand out. Things like real premium aftermarket parts worth big bank (aka: Atlas II transfer cases, Dana 60 1-Tons, real engineered high end suspension and full engineered safety cage, aluminum high dollar armor etc.). @9K I'm afraid we're worlds apart and wouldn't even give it time of thought........

YMMV but Texas cars are usually like Southern California and Arizona & New Mexico cars, No rust issues unless it was imported from the rust belt states earlier in it's lifetime.


RE

 

[BobK]

Ok, this calls for more data...LOL.

The 06 Rubi has full skid plates (a few scratches and rubs) but an annoying red bra like material on the hood and front fender tips (must come off). The winch, front bumper, air compressor, trail shower heat exchange, and bead locks must go and the tires need replaced. The removals cost nothing except for some new heater hoses. I might even be able to sell the front bumper, winch and compressor. The rear bumper and wilderness rack also must go.

Now none of the work scares me, its just my free time anyway. I might get a few bucks on selling a few of these accessories that are nice, but they are not what I want anyway and was planning on new wheels, tires, bumpers and winch. The long arm lift sounds good, but not sure about how good the shocks are since it an older lift.

03 Sport is clean and straight, 80k miles, the tires are in good shape, but my plan was for 35's not 33's so they would go. The oil leak is not concerning jut extra $$. local Jeep shop wants $800 for rear main, oil pan and valve cover gaskets and oil change. the 2003 is a three speed transmission, not four as I actually posted by accident.

 

[02SteelBlue]

Here is a summary of my three alternatives for a base to build up (bumpers, new winch, decent lift kit, new tires and wheels)

2006 TJ Rubicon, 85k miles, Nth Degree long arm lift, winch, wilderness rack, bead lock wheels, belt driven air compressor, heat exchange trail shower kit, 33x12.5 tires (need replaced soon), 4 speed automatic, no oil drips, red paint, soft top - $15k asking. Notes: don't want the bead locks, air compressor, or trail shower, all to be removed.

2003 TJ Sport, 80k miles, generic lift kit, 33x12.5 tires (good shape), dripping oil from rear main seal. clean/straight body, 4 speed automatic, yellow paint, soft top - $11k asking. Notes: Clean, low mileage, less $$$, not a lot to be removed prior to upgrading, needs rear main seal, and valve cover gasket replaced.

2001 TJ X, 208,000 miles, generic lift, 33" tires, interior clean, body looks clean and straight, dripping oil from rear main seal, 3 speed automatic, black paint, newer soft top, - $9k asking. Notes: Clean, a bit sun faded, needs rear main seal replaced.

I'll add to the X part, as I have one. No cruise control, no tilt steering, 3.07 gears, and maybe other aesthetics I'm missing.

I dont care about any of that. Except maybe the 3.07 gears. Note: I've never had anything higher, but from everything I've read, I'm missing out.

Had the Jeep for 3 months and it hasn't been offroad yet, but it will see occasional light trails in the future. The 3.07 is perfectly fine for what I do now - highway/ city mix driving.

Edit: Dana 30 front, Dana 35 rear

 

[BobK]

A valve cover gasket and a rear main oil seal are certainly no more challenging than those customization project you listed. Utube video’s are there to guide your way. Attention to cleaning detail, following instructions to the letter, and using the right tools will help you do quality work.

I watched a YouTube video last night on changing out the rear main seal. Looks doable but the guy had his axle off which made it seem infinitely easier. I don't have a lift so I would be working with jack stands and/or ramps to get the Jeep up. The valve cover I could do in my sleep, but the lack of a lift limits me at times.

 

[BobK]

If you buy the 2006, I would be interested in the trail heat exchange shower takeoff.
The OBA if it is York compressor based will sell for good $$ from anyone who's had experience with them vs. electric air compressors except the Oasis brand which is basically like York OBA.

As said by others, fairly certain you have your transmissions mixed up on #2 & 3.

If it were me having had 12 Jeeps since the 80's in order of desirable rigs to own:

#1 cause it's the lowest mileage and cleanest with no leaks or "must fix immediately" going on there. Not saying it's the best deal monetarily speaking but it is the nicest of the lot PERIOD. Get it for around $13K it would be a "buy".

#2 the 2003 if it really is, price is subjective to the area of the country but looking all over id say $7,500 it would be a "buy" but you better have carfax or background on all of these to make sure. You will have to fix leaks soon.

#3 A Jeep of any kind with over 200K is worth whatever the seller can get. By most standards it's considered OLD and past prime. That said, look for bargains around the $3-5K range maximum unless there's something that just makes it a spectacular stand out. Things like real premium aftermarket parts worth big bank (aka: Atlas II transfer cases, Dana 60 1-Tons, real engineered high end suspension and full engineered safety cage, aluminum high dollar armor etc.). @9K I'm afraid we're worlds apart and wouldn't even give it time of thought........

YMMV but Texas cars are usually like Southern California and Arizona & New Mexico cars, No rust issues unless it was imported from the rust belt states earlier in it's lifetime.


RE

I'm going back tomorrow to look at the Rubi and all the "take off" but no leaks to be fixed pronto. Then based on what I hear, see, and feel I may go back to see the Sport too for another test drive.

 

[BobK]

If you buy the 2006, I would be interested in the trail heat exchange shower takeoff.
The OBA if it is York compressor based will sell for good $$ from anyone who's had experience with them vs. electric air compressors except the Oasis brand which is basically like York OBA.

As said by others, fairly certain you have your transmissions mixed up on #2 & 3.

If it were me having had 12 Jeeps since the 80's in order of desirable rigs to own:

#1 cause it's the lowest mileage and cleanest with no leaks or "must fix immediately" going on there. Not saying it's the best deal monetarily speaking but it is the nicest of the lot PERIOD. Get it for around $13K it would be a "buy".

#2 the 2003 if it really is, price is subjective to the area of the country but looking all over id say $7,500 it would be a "buy" but you better have carfax or background on all of these to make sure. You will have to fix leaks soon.

#3 A Jeep of any kind with over 200K is worth whatever the seller can get. By most standards it's considered OLD and past prime. That said, look for bargains around the $3-5K range maximum unless there's something that just makes it a spectacular stand out. Things like real premium aftermarket parts worth big bank (aka: Atlas II transfer cases, Dana 60 1-Tons, real engineered high end suspension and full engineered safety cage, aluminum high dollar armor etc.). @9K I'm afraid we're worlds apart and wouldn't even give it time of thought........

YMMV but Texas cars are usually like Southern California and Arizona & New Mexico cars, No rust issues unless it was imported from the rust belt states earlier in it's lifetime.


RE

If I do end up with the Rubi, I will be posting the on-board air compressor (belt driven), the trail shower heat exchange, the Smitty 8k winch and roller fairlead, rear tire carrier and Wilderness rack and Jerry cans and front Wilderness bumper with two hooks, and the five bead lock wheels. Seems like a lot to sell, but given the weight of each item, I suspect it will take some time to sell locally given shipping costs.

If I get the Sport, I have four BFG KO2's with chrome wheels to sell, everything else is stock factory.

 

[billiebob]

03 Sport is clean and straight, 80k miles, the tires are in good shape, but my plan was for 35's not 33's so they would go. The oil leak is not concerning jut extra $$. local Jeep shop wants $800 for rear main, oil pan and valve cover gaskets and oil change. the 2003 is a three speed transmission, not four as I actually posted by accident.

Understand going to 35s is another game.
Unless you just want to mall crawl 35s will break something.