TJ still shakes at 60 mph after recent balance and alignment

Rcroane

Rcroane

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I was getting vibration from the front wheels and at the steering wheel at 60 mph on my '06 TJ (stock setup). I had all four wheels balanced and aligned. I'm still having the issue even after taking it back to have the balancing re-done. It happens right at 60, especially if I let up on the gas just a bit. What else can I check/ajdust/replace? From what I have read, I don't believe this is death wobble because it isn't a violent shaking of the wheel, but it is very noticeable.

Thanks.
 
Rcroane said:
I was getting vibration from the front wheels and at the steering wheel at 60 mph on my '06 TJ (stock setup). I had all four wheels balanced and aligned. I'm still having the issue even after taking it back to have the balancing re-done. It happens right at 60, especially if I let up on the gas just a bit. What else can I check/ajdust/replace? From what I have read, I don't believe this is death wobble because it isn't a violent shaking of the wheel, but it is very noticeable.

Thanks.
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Did you watch them spin the wheels on the balancer to make sure they are actually round? If not, go back and do that this time and when you find the ones that aren't round, fix that part.
 
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I once had to go back to my Discount Tire Store three times in the same day before they finally figured out they needed to spend enough time to get them balanced perfectly as I required. The first two times they were done in 20 minutes. They spent an hour on them the third time.
 
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Jerry Bransford said:
I once had to go back to my Discount Tire Store three times in the same day before they finally figured out they needed to spend enough time to get them balanced perfectly as I required. The first two times they were done in 20 minutes. They spent an hour on them the third time.
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Yeah....I have a "lifetime" balance/alignment package with my Firestone shop. I always wondered how they make money off those packages. Now I know. I'm sure I got the 20 minute (or less) job. Back I go....hopefully, third time is the charm.
 
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mrblaine said:
Did you watch them spin the wheels on the balancer to make sure they are actually round? If not, go back and do that this time and when you find the ones that aren't round, fix that part.
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Easy way to check yourself...jack it up so the tire is off the ground, put a 2x4 or block right up against the tread but just barely not touching, rotate the tire by hand and look at if the gap changes or rubs the block.

Big problem is tire shops don't seem to understand that tires not being round is an issue even though they are balanced.

I don't know why letting off the accelerator would make it worse though. All your body mounts solidly attached and frame solid?
 
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Vtx531 said:
Easy way to check yourself...jack it up so the tire is off the ground, put a 2x4 or block right up against the tread but just barely not touching, rotate the tire by hand and look at if the gap changes or rubs the block.

Big problem is tire shops don't seem to understand that tires not being round is an issue even though they are balanced.

I don't know why letting off the accelerator would make it worse though. All your body mounts solidly attached and frame solid?
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There are a lot of ways to check them yourself. That doesn't change the value of watching them on the balancer while they are spinning which also saves you the trouble of paying for a balance that won't work and leaving the tire shop with crap tires.
 
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Vtx531 said:
Easy way to check yourself...jack it up so the tire is off the ground, put a 2x4 or block right up against the tread but just barely not touching, rotate the tire by hand and look at if the gap changes or rubs the block.

Big problem is tire shops don't seem to understand that tires not being round is an issue even though they are balanced.

I don't know why letting off the accelerator would make it worse though. All your body mounts solidly attached and frame solid?
Click to expand...

I will try this and also see if I can observe the wheels on the balance machine at the shop. Now for super dumb question...is it the tire or the wheel that could be out of round, or both? And if out of round, I assume replacement is the only fix? Thanks.
 
Rcroane said:
How would I check this, and if it is failing, would it only cause a vibration at 60 mph?
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Generally, you can just crawl under your jeep a shake the drive shaft, if there is any play then likely you have a u joint going bad. The second thing is that many shops, that are not TJ savvy, will jack the jeep up with a lift that puts the front drive shaft in a bind and will bend it, just a few thousands of bend will cause a vibration that varies with speed. Good Luck.
 
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Rcroane said:
I will try this and also see if I can observe the wheels on the balance machine at the shop. Now for super dumb question...is it the tire or the wheel that could be out of round, or both? And if out of round, I assume replacement is the only fix? Thanks.
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Could be one or the other or both. There is a detailed procedure in the Factory Service Manual (FSM) on diagnosing this based on using a dial indicator to measure total runout and then clocking the wheel on the rim 180degrees to see if it goes back into spec or if the highspot follows the tire or stays at the original position.

Another good way to diagnose this is with a Hunter Roadforce tire balancer. It essentially does the same thing but places a load on the tire while measuring runout which is more accurate than unloaded runout. A lot of shops have these but few tire people know how or have the desire to actually use the advanced features and functions.

Either way, I've found it's sort of an uphill battle trying to get a tire shop to figure out this sort of thing. Helps if you can do the 2x4 block test to see if one of the tires is way off compared to the others and you can at least go into the shop and point them in the direction of a specific tire/wheel assembly. At the very least, you can swap the worst one with the spare yourself and do a test drive to confirm your suspicions and be more confident when trying to convince the tire guys.
 
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If you find one of the tire/wheel assemblies seems out of round, it would be worthwhile to take the tire/wheel off and give it a good visual inspection for any damage. Seems like pothole damage on a high sidewall tire with 15" rims is probably not an issue though. Usually the damage is on the inside face of the wheel because the spokes are closer to the outside (on stock wheels with stock backspacing) and makes it less likely to bend there because it is stronger there than inside.
 
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Have you tried to swap rear and front to see if it persist?
I have made about 5 trips to Discount Tire to alleviate vibrations, they have tried different methods with no success. Then i went to another small shop in the woods of West Virginia, guy was able to balance them out and he purposefully moved worst balanced tires to the rear. Everything was great, and i was happy until recent tire rotation, rears went to the front and that damn vibration in the steering wheel is back.

There is something going on at 60 - 65 mph that causes tires to vibrate and is difficult for the tire shops to balance.
Do you have this issue at 55 or 70 mph ? I used to have no problems at 55 and 70, but as soon as speed approaches 60 the shake would start, get worse at 65 and slowly disappear towards 70.
 
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eastbloc said:
Have you tried to swap rear and front to see if it persist?
I have made about 5 trips to Discount Tire to alleviate vibrations, they have tried different methods with no success. Then i went to another small shop in the woods of West Virginia, guy was able to balance them out and he purposefully moved worst balanced tires to the rear. Everything was great, and i was happy until recent tire rotation, rears went to the front and that damn vibration in the steering wheel is back.

There is something going on at 60 - 65 mph that causes tires to vibrate and is difficult for the tire shops to balance.
Do you have this issue at 55 or 70 mph ? I used to have no problems at 55 and 70, but as soon as speed approaches 60 the shake would start, get worse at 65 and slowly disappear towards 70.
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Yes, I swapped front and rear tires. Didn't help. And yes, fine at 55 and 70....problem is right at 60 and a little higher.
 
Update....I did the at home "out of round" check and everything looked good. I also checked the front driveshaft U joint and no movement except I can turn the driveshaft both directions a little bit. I assume that is not the movement that would indicate an issue.
 
Are you feeling that 60 mph vibration through the steering wheel or through the seat of your pants? If it's through the steering wheel it's going to be tire or wheel related. If it's through the seat of your pants it's a drivetrain vibration, likely caused by an incorrect pinion angle or the rear driveshaft u-joints are working into an excessive angle.

But since your TJ is still stock from what you say I'm betting its coming through the steering wheel and it's still tire or wheel related despite having rotated and balanced the tires.
 
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Jerry Bransford said:
Are you feeling that 60 mph vibration through the steering wheel or through the seat of your pants? If it's through the steering wheel it's going to be tire or wheel related. If it's through the seat of your pants it's a drivetrain vibration, likely caused by an incorrect pinion angle or the rear driveshaft u-joints are working into an excessive angle.

But since your TJ is still stock from what you say I'm betting its coming through the steering wheel and it's still tire or wheel related despite having rotated and balanced the tires.
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Through the steering wheel. So, back to the shop I go.
 
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Check wheel hubs and rotors.
I received bad wheel hubs from Timken twice in the row, they caused wheel wobble. By the time i figured it out i put roughly 1500 miles on them, that wobble has resulted in uneven rotor wear. That was two of the attributing factors to my shakes.
 
Quick question....I'm headed back to the tire shop this weekend for attempt number 3. Should I just have them focus on the two front wheels? They also told me they do not have a Road Force balance machine....really surprising because it's a pretty big shop (Firestone).
 
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