Vibration at 60 mph

Tigger09

TJ Enthusiast
Joined
Dec 19, 2018
Messages
146
Location
Chicago, IL
I feel like I should be sitting in a circle in the basement of a church attending a weekly support group. “Hello my name is Jim and I have a TJ that vibrates.” I really did try to find the answer before I created another “vibration” thread and before I started throwing money at the problem I wanted to see what everyone thinks of my situation.

I bought a 2002 auto I6 with 31 inch BFG Mud Terrain T/A ties on it. 85k miles on it but it was trailered behind an RV so who knows how many more miles that added. It is my first Jeep so I’m not sure what is normal and might be a symptom. When I drive I have a small vibration that I always attributed it to the mud terrain tires. When I took it on the expressway for the first time (and every time) there is nasty shake between 60-70 mph. It’s not death wobble bad, you can keep a straight line with a single finger on the wheel but it would knock out my fillings if I had any. Dropping the speed under 60 ends the exaggerated vibration. I’ve rotated the ties with no change.

Tonight I took off the front drive shaft hoping it was a u-joint but removing that didn’t change anything. I did notice that when the car is in reverse or any forward gear there is a slight vibration on the wheel that isn’t there in park or neutral. I’ve done the dry steering test and the pry the tie up to check the ball joint test and nothing jumps out at me but I could have missed something. Tomorrow I’m going to check the alignment, have the tires rebalanced and rotated again. I’ll see what the shop says but I wanted to see what everyone thought.

Other issues I’m working on are a leaky oil sending unit and replacing both pinion seals. I doubt they are related but I figured I’d mention it. Also the engine is a little noise till it warms up but after that it sounds great. I assume that is a Jeep thing but again figured I add it as background info.

Is the slight vibration while in gear but not moving a symptom or a ”normal” Jeep thing?
 
Your tires need to be balanced. I'd bet on it.

This is very common, and the answer 9 out of 10 times is balancing the wheels / tires.
 
How old are the tires? Have the shop that’s balancing the tires read the date code.
 
Your tires need to be balanced. I'd bet on it.

I read your FAQ and other posts stating its always the tires being poorly balanced yet I was still ready to pull the trigger on a complete steering upgrade. (It took them 5 hours to balance the ties and try to up sell me on shocks and breaks) In the end it was in fact the tires needing to be balanced. It's good to know I'm starting my next project (shocks & lift) from a good place and that the steering can wait till the weather is nicer. Thanks all.
 
I read your FAQ and other posts stating its always the tires being poorly balanced yet I was still ready to pull the trigger on a complete steering upgrade. (It took them 5 hours to balance the ties and try to up sell me on shocks and breaks) In the end it was in fact the tires needing to be balanced. It's good to know I'm starting my next project (shocks & lift) from a good place and that the steering can wait till the weather is nicer. Thanks all.

Glad you got it figured out.

The problem we run into a lot with Jeeps is that many tire shops don’t know how to correctly balance the large tires we run. Because of that, often times a tire shop will send you on your way telling you they balanced them, when in fact they didn’t do it correctly.

For this reason I always like to go to shops who have experience dealing with 4x4s or big trucks.
 
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...The problem we run into a lot with Jeeps is that many tire shops don’t know how to correctly balance the large tires we run. Because of that, often times a tire shop will send you on your way telling you they balanced them, when in fact they didn’t do it correctly.
Exactly. I took my TJ into Discount Tires to fix a speed-sensitive vibration and twice they said they were balanced and sent me on my way only for me to discover I still had the speed-sensitive vibration. It wasn't until the third time in that same day that they finally put a tech on who was better at balancing larger tires who finally got the speed-sensitive shimmy taken care of. Three balance jobs in one day, only the final one did the job.
 
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Exactly. I took my TJ into Discount Tires to fix a speed-sensitive vibration and twice they said they were balanced and sent me on my way only for me to discover I still had the speed-sensitive vibration. It wasn't until the third time in that same day that they finally put a tech on who was better at balancing larger tires who finally got the speed-sensitive shimmy taken care of. Three balance jobs in one day, only the final one did the job.
The Discount Tire closest to me has a Jeep guy as a Tech. He's got a fairly built Jeep. He gets it. He's also the only guy in the area that sells and installs my tires. Five sets and not a hiccup yet. It's worth the drive and the few extra dollars involved. He'll also order in a new tire if one doesn't pass muster on install. Happened once with the TJ.
 
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The Discount Tire closest to me has a Jeep guy as a Tech. He's got a fairly built Jeep. He gets it. He's also the only guy in the area that sells and installs my tires. Five sets and not a hiccup yet. It's worth the drive and the few extra dollars involved. He'll also order in a new tire if one doesn't pass muster on install. Happened once with the TJ.
Very cool, I wish I had a guy like that local to me. I have a trustworthy shop (not Discount Tire) that gets it the first time but they're about 75 miles from me... where I bought my last set of tires.
 
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Never once had an issue with Discount Tire. However, given that there are so many of them over the U.S., that's not surprising. You've just got to find a shop you like and continue to take it there.
 
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Hi-jacking thread, didn't see a point to add another vibration/pinion/etc. thread.

First: 4.5" lift, removed TC drop (1/2"), DC DS& SYE. Upper/Lower adjustable control arms.

Had to adjust all my rear control arms, the knucklehead (auto shop) I paid to set them had everyone at a different length.
LCA: 16.5"+/- maybe 1-3/16" difference, but both at equal lengths.
UCA: I forget, but I had to move them out about 1.5" Maybe 14.5ish. Both at equal length after adjusting pinion angle.
With UCA removed: I set jack under the diff/yoke and jacked up until my diff/driveshaft looked to be as in-line as possible.
Angle on DS: 16/17 degrees.
Angle on the bottom of Diff(Dumb spot): 20/21
—-I've seen Jerry post about this spot, hopefully, he knows what I'm talking about.
Angle using the flat spot on back side of Dana 35: 14

Adjusted rear track bar after driving in a few small circles/jumping on back etc.
Found a bad u-joint on the DC joint, so I know that's on the fix it list.
Still vibrating, comes in and out. Does not feel like tires, it is under acceleration/load only.

Main concern as of now: How do those angles look etc. I don't think I can narrow down all the issues until I replace the u-joint or driveshaft. I will probably replace with a complete DS as most of the parts the PO installed came from rough country, I'm assuming that's where the DS came from.

No rush, I did a few other little things and I'm about to drive home and get a good 25-mile highway report.

Pic 1: DS
Pic 2: Angle on top of DS
Pic 3: Bottom of the flat spot on Diff
Pic 4: Back of Dana 35

Pinion1.jpg


DS.jpg


Bottom Diff.jpg


Back of Diff.jpg


Ang Locations.png
 
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I can't tell what those angles are supposed to be of, they're too close to see what's being measured. What's the angle on the driveshaft itself?

Here's how to get a direct pinion angle from the back of the axle via either of the two flat machined surfaces on either side of the diff cover. Those two flat surfaces circled in yellow are exactly 90 degrees away from the pinion angle. Rotating the angle finder as shown below will show the exact pinion angle.

Pinion angle, where to measure from.JPG
PinionAngleMeasuring1.jpg
 
The last picture I put up was where I measured, I'll get better ones, but I did use that spot you are showing.
Pic 1: DS
Pic 2: Angle on top of DS: 16/17 degrees
Pic 3: Bottom of the flat spot on Diff
Pic 4: Back of Dana 35: 14 degrees. That's the spot you show.
Ang Locations.png
 
@Jerry Bransford
Did a little tweaking today, still getting a bad vibration starting at 25mph.
Driveshaft: 17*
Pinion: 16*

Should I put the 1/2" TC drop back on? Would the bad U-joint really case this much vibration?

DS Angle.jpg


Pinion Angle.jpg