Grade 8 bolt corrosion resistance?

MikekiM

TJ Expert
Original poster
Supporting Member
Joined
Nov 3, 2018
Messages
4,424
Location
East of Montauk, NY
Needed longer bolts to install OE tow hooks on the stock bumper with a KC light bar sandwiched between.

1/2 13 bolts were available in Grade 5, Grade 8 Zinc and Grade 8 flange bolts. All 19mm hex and all within a few cents of each-other. I opted for the black Grade 8 flange bolts mainly due to the flange. Would have chose Grade 5 if it was only to secure the bumper but since it was for the tow hooks, I figured a little overkill was within reason. Question is.. since these are not zinc coated will they rust? Of is the black coating going to prevent rust. I am going to have the bumper off this week and can paint them.
 
Black oxide is in fact a controlled chemical oxidation process that equates to black rust. If you ever buy grade 8 bolts or screws that are black oxided, you will notice that they are often oil coated. This is to prevent them from rusting!
So yes, they will rust. many opt for G5 for winch mounts as they say 5 will give a tad before snapping. Im not gonna suggest which is better for your application.
 
Black oxide is in fact a controlled chemical oxidation process that equates to black rust. If you ever buy grade 8 bolts or screws that are black oxided, you will notice that they are often oil coated. This is to prevent them from rusting!
So yes, they will rust. many opt for G5 for winch mounts as they say 5 will give a tad before snapping. Im not gonna suggest which is better for your application.
That's what I thought.. thanks.

I'll expect rust.. I can get them painted before I have an issue.
 
Last edited:
I'd use loctite on the threads and paint them after they are installed. The loctite does an okay job internally to prevent corrosion and if you paint after you don't ruin them with the socket. I don't think it makes a big deal either way but that's what I've done.
 
Stainless can be difficult to navigate, some are great and some are not at all. Just as a basic example, even the specs from a place like Bolt Depot are not totally clear, how important is that low yield strength number? Grainger is probably even more difficult to navigate and I wouldn't want to root through bins at a hardware store and guess.
 
My choice would have been grade 8 zinc bolt with a grade 8 zinc washer.
The washer will help keep the bolt head from scratching the paint off the hook.
 
My choice would have been grade 8 zinc bolt with a grade 8 zinc washer.
The washer will help keep the bolt head from scratching the paint off the hook.
I had them both in my hands and then saw the flanged bolt. I didn't have the tow hooks in hand and the only G8 zinc washers they had looked like they would have been too big to sit two of them side by side.

Easy enough to exchange them.
 
Zinc plated bolts will work best at first, and are probably the best choice for off-the-shelf hardware. The zinc layer itself is sacrificial, and over time, may eventually corrode away, leaving the steel exposed. However, in the time it still exists, it will prevent the bolt and surrounding material from corroding.

Stainless fasteners will have far more corrosion resistance by themselves, and would probably outlast any other option. However, in the presence of other metals, such as aluminum and steel, they will cause aggressive galvanic corrosion of the surrounding metals unless fully electrically isolated. As such, I would not recommend stainless fasteners unless you are sure you can keep the base metal fully painted (no chips) and the bolt/nut electrically isolated from any adjacent metal.

Automotive manufacturers often used bolts that are galvanized and then painted. If the bolt can be mostly protected from paint damage, this is the best solution. However, these bolts can be difficult to find off the shelf.

My personal recommendation would be to use a zinc plated fastener, and simply cover it with a shot of your favorite oil-based rust preventative. If the vast majority of the exposed bolt is covered in oil sludge, the lifetime of the zinc coating will probably outlast the service life of the vehicle it is attached to.
 
The grade 8 yellow zinc is great. Had them on my towhooks for years in Michigan. Black oxide is garbage and rusts quickly, as already said above.
 
Stainless fasteners will have far more corrosion resistance by themselves, and would probably outlast any other option. However, in the presence of other metals, such as aluminum and steel, they will cause aggressive galvanic corrosion of the surrounding metals unless fully electrically isolated.

I thought galvanic corrosion was only an issue with stainless and aluminum, not stainless and steel. Is it less of an issue with stainless and steel or the same?
 
Zinc plated bolts will work best at first, and are probably the best choice for off-the-shelf hardware. The zinc layer itself is sacrificial, and over time, may eventually corrode away, leaving the steel exposed. However, in the time it still exists, it will prevent the bolt and surrounding material from corroding.

Stainless fasteners will have far more corrosion resistance by themselves, and would probably outlast any other option. However, in the presence of other metals, such as aluminum and steel, they will cause aggressive galvanic corrosion of the surrounding metals unless fully electrically isolated. As such, I would not recommend stainless fasteners unless you are sure you can keep the base metal fully painted (no chips) and the bolt/nut electrically isolated from any adjacent metal.

Automotive manufacturers often used bolts that are galvanized and then painted. If the bolt can be mostly protected from paint damage, this is the best solution. However, these bolts can be difficult to find off the shelf.

My personal recommendation would be to use a zinc plated fastener, and simply cover it with a shot of your favorite oil-based rust preventative. If the vast majority of the exposed bolt is covered in oil sludge, the lifetime of the zinc coating will probably outlast the service life of the vehicle it is attached to.
Good theory, generally not even remotely an issue on a TJ.
What material do they use for galvanizing fasteners?
 
I thought galvanic corrosion was only an issue with stainless and aluminum, not stainless and steel. Is it less of an issue with stainless and steel or the same?
Galvanic corrosion will generally occur between any pair of dissimilar metals. The rate at which it occurs depends upon the galvanic potential as described in a galvanic series. Stainless steels are generally far higher in a galvanic series than either carbon steel or aluminum, and will generally result in significant galvanic corrosion of either of the two materials.

Aluminum and carbon/plain steel are quite close in the galvanic series, and typically there is only small increase in the corrosion rate of the steel when the two metals are used together.

Also note that zinc is one of the most aggressively corroded metals in the chart, and that it will corrode long before the other metals. This is how zinc playing can protect a fastener or adjacent material, even if the coating is chipped. It is considered a sacrificial anode, meaning it corrodes in order to protect the surrounding metal. It works very well with carbon/plain steels, and to a lesser degree aluminum. It generally does not work well with stainless steels as the very large potential difference results in very rapid consumption of the zinc plating.

Zinc is often used as a sacrificial anode on boats and other metal underwater structures as its corrosion prevents the corrosion of surrounding metal.

Note that in order for galvanic corrosion to occur between two or more dissimilar metals, two conditions must be met. The dissimilar metals must be electrically connected, and also immersed in the same electrolyte. If either condition is broken, galvanic corrosion stops (however corrosion may continue in other forms).

In the case of most automobiles, they tend to operate above water, and not in it. The electrolyte can often be the air itself, which is not very conductive, though the presence of large amounts of moisture and salt particles can make it more conductive. Salt spray from the road can create a film of conductive electrolyte that vastly increases galvanic corrosion.

In automotive design (as well as many other engineering disciplines), great care is taken to electrically isolate dissimilar metals. This is why Ford and other manufacturers of aluminum-bodied steel-framed cars forbid anything that could electrically couple the body and the frame. If the two materials are properly isolated, no galvanic corrosion occurs (again, other types of corrosion can still take place).
 
For anyone interested in learning the basics of galvanic corrosion (and how it particularly relates to fastener selection) I highly recommend this short 4-page PDF from Fastenal:

https://www.fastenal.com/content/feds/pdf/Article - Corrosion.pdf
Obviously this subject is a rabbit hole that people dedicate their entire lives to studying. But that PDF is a good start to get a layman’s understanding of galvanics
 
  • Like
Reactions: BlueC
Galvanic corrosion will generally occur between any pair of dissimilar metals.

In automotive design (as well as many other engineering disciplines), great care is taken to electrically isolate dissimilar metals. This is why Ford and other manufacturers of aluminum-bodied steel-framed cars forbid anything that could electrically couple the body and the frame. If the two materials are properly isolated, no galvanic corrosion occurs (again, other types of corrosion can still take place).
Someone should have explained that to Chrysler. Look under the hood of a TJ. There are probably 50 examples of dissimilar metal contact with steel plated and un-plated fasteners.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Steel City 06
Good theory, generally not even remotely an issue on a TJ.
What material do they use for galvanizing fasteners?
Typically zinc. The zinc isn’t necessarily intended to encapsulate the base metal. Instead, it is intended to corrode prior to the base metal.

Zinc plating, when the fastener is fully encapsulated, does indeed protect the fastener from corroding for quite a long time.

But even if the plating is chipped or damaged, as often occurs when a bolt is threaded in and torqued, or when installed/removed repeatedly with an impact gun or socket wrench, the zinc plating will still protect the base material, and in many cases, the surrounding material. At the location of the chip, the exposed steel does not rust, because the steel bolt base metal and the zinc plating create a galvanic couple. The zinc begins to corrode, but as long as there is adequate surface area on the zinc, the steel does not corrode in any significant amount. However, in this case the zinc plating is being consumed, and the time the fastener will survive is limited.

Keeping the plating encapsulation intact does indeed extend the life of the bolt. Every chip, scratch, or grind mark cuts the amount of time the bolt has until the plating is consumed, and the bolt itself corrodes. The rate at which the plating corrodes is dependent upon the surface area of the exposed steel (for small steel:zinc surface area ratios), and thus the more zinc is chipped off, the less time the bolt has until it begins to rust.

You can experiment with this at home. Get a bucket of salt water, and a lid. Get a few bolts and nuts.

Start by throwing a brand new zinc plated bolt in the bucket. Next, take a zinc plated bolt, and grind some of the plating off on the head. 3rd, take a zinc plated bolt and screw on a stainless nut (316 for more dramatic effects) tightly against the head. Finally, throw in an aluminum bolt with a stainless nut tightly screwed on. Make sure none of the bolts touch each other in the bucket. Throw a lid on, and let it sit for a long time.

If followed correctly, there should be little to no change in the plated fastener. Since the base steel is fully encapsulated, no galvanic corrosion can occur. The steel is simply not exposed to the electrolyte.

The plated fastener with the grind marks will at first begin to lose its zinc plating, and once sufficient plating is lost, the base steel itself begins to rust. Unlike the previous bolt, both the zinc and the steel are exposed to the electrolyte, and galvanic corrosion occurs, consuming the zinc. Once the zinc is consumed, the base steel now will corrode via non-galvanic processes.

The zinc fastener with the steel nut will be even more interesting. Even though the base steel is still fully encapsulated, the zinc and the stainless quickly create a strong galvanic cell, resulting in rapid loss of the zinc plating. Once sufficient zinc is lost, the base steel becomes exposed, and the carbon steel and the stainless become a secondary galvanic cell, resulting in rapid rusting of the newly exposed bolt.

The aluminum bolt and stainless fastener is a wild card. Aluminum and stainless will indeed form a galvanic cell, but depending upon the exact specifications, the aluminum could passivate, or essentially corrode a layer onto itself that actually protects it from corrosion. In other cases, passivation will not occur, and the aluminum will corrode through. Any hairline cracks in the aluminum will result in corrosion in the crack, significantly weakening the material. In combination with repeated stress, this results in rapid fatigue cracking, known as stress corrosion cracking.
 
Someone should have explained that to Chrysler. Look under the hood of a TJ. There are probably 50 examples of dissimilar metal contact with steel plated and un-plated fasteners.
Are you doubting Damlier's superior knowledge :cool: Ive been told by numerous "bolt" suppliers" when in the Gov sector most all SS hardware you'll find at the local stores (TDH?? brand) is considered G5. Working at a coastal water plant I will say is if you plan on dismantling what ever you use them om and dont use anti seize they gall easily and will destroy threads.
 
Typically zinc. The zinc isn’t necessarily intended to encapsulate the base metal. Instead, it is intended to corrode prior to the base metal.

Zinc plating, when the fastener is fully encapsulated, does indeed protect the fastener from corroding for quite a long time.

But even if the plating is chipped or damaged, as often occurs when a bolt is threaded in and torqued, or when installed/removed repeatedly with an impact gun or socket wrench, the zinc plating will still protect the base material, and in many cases, the surrounding material. At the location of the chip, the exposed steel does not rust, because the steel bolt base metal and the zinc plating create a galvanic couple. The zinc begins to corrode, but as long as there is adequate surface area on the zinc, the steel does not corrode in any significant amount. However, in this case the zinc plating is being consumed, and the time the fastener will survive is limited.

Keeping the plating encapsulation intact does indeed extend the life of the bolt. Every chip, scratch, or grind mark cuts the amount of time the bolt has until the plating is consumed, and the bolt itself corrodes. The rate at which the plating corrodes is dependent upon the surface area of the exposed steel (for small steel:zinc surface area ratios), and thus the more zinc is chipped off, the less time the bolt has until it begins to rust.

You can experiment with this at home. Get a bucket of salt water, and a lid. Get a few bolts and nuts.

Start by throwing a brand new zinc plated bolt in the bucket. Next, take a zinc plated bolt, and grind some of the plating off on the head. 3rd, take a zinc plated bolt and screw on a stainless nut (316 for more dramatic effects) tightly against the head. Finally, throw in an aluminum bolt with a stainless nut tightly screwed on. Make sure none of the bolts touch each other in the bucket. Throw a lid on, and let it sit for a long time.

If followed correctly, there should be little to no change in the plated fastener. Since the base steel is fully encapsulated, no galvanic corrosion can occur. The steel is simply not exposed to the electrolyte.

The plated fastener with the grind marks will at first begin to lose its zinc plating, and once sufficient plating is lost, the base steel itself begins to rust. Unlike the previous bolt, both the zinc and the steel are exposed to the electrolyte, and galvanic corrosion occurs, consuming the zinc. Once the zinc is consumed, the base steel now will corrode via non-galvanic processes.

The zinc fastener with the steel nut will be even more interesting. Even though the base steel is still fully encapsulated, the zinc and the stainless quickly create a strong galvanic cell, resulting in rapid loss of the zinc plating. Once sufficient zinc is lost, the base steel becomes exposed, and the carbon steel and the stainless become a secondary galvanic cell, resulting in rapid rusting of the newly exposed bolt.

The aluminum bolt and stainless fastener is a wild card. Aluminum and stainless will indeed form a galvanic cell, but depending upon the exact specifications, the aluminum could passivate, or essentially corrode a layer onto itself that actually protects it from corrosion. In other cases, passivation will not occur, and the aluminum will corrode through. Any hairline cracks in the aluminum will result in corrosion in the crack, significantly weakening the material. In combination with repeated stress, this results in rapid fatigue cracking, known as stress corrosion cracking.
Isn't is just easier to look at the examples of practical application we can see under the hood of a TJ and understand that theory is great, but we can do a lot of things that just work by following existing examples in application?