Apple Watch banned from sale in US

[freedom_in_4low]

My wife had a 2 year old MacBook pro...not a cheap machine by any stretch, go belly up due to a motherboard issue while it was still under warranty. Got that fixed and it lasted a few more years but eventually had to replace it due to something else that was expensive as no longer under warranty.

That's been my only experience with Apple computers, but literally every PC I've ever had gave more years of service with less trouble.

She's had a few iPhones over the years that I always hated dealing with. Even things that should be simple like accessing the memory via USB to copy vacation photos off of it were exercises in rage control. I've got us both using Windows PCs and Google Pixel phones now and things are peachy.

 

[Zorba]

the better advice is to select the tools that are appropriate for your individual needs and to understand how the tools will work and age. pros and cons to everything in life, just educate yourself appropriately.

been an apple guy my entire life and have never had the rug pulled from under me since I select the tools appropriate for my use. the same tools may not be appropriate for someone else which is why you won't see me bag on windows or linux since I have no need for those tools.

office (residential construction) switched from windows to apple products recently and our productivity has gone through the roof, yet I'm not here shitting on windows.

By rug pulled out, I mean Apple develops new software that is wonderful. People switch to it because it really is great. Then Apple stops support for it, removes it from the OS distribution, it will no longer run on newer version of the OS, etc, etc. If you've never had the rug pulled out from under you by Apple, then you have minimized usage of their software. You can "select appropriate tools" all you like - it sounds good - but if Apple ends support for your "appropriate tool", you're DONE and Apple doesn't give a shit. 3rd party software? You'll have a better run, but sooner or later Apple will break that too with an OS "upgrade". Hopefully the 3rd party can re-compile if they still exist - or are willing to. I have a program that I have used for years, and the idiot developer is too fucking lazy to recompile it for the modern 64 bit only OS since Apple decreed "no more 32 bit software". That's just great - to Hell with both of you. I've dealt with this going back about 25 years of Apple's broken promises/software, I'm tired of it. They also don't fix their bugs a lot of times, even with a new OS release; they just introduce new ones.

I've had this happen more fucking times than I can recall. Windows has its own set of problems, and they're certainly creating more as time goes by. Backwards compatibility has historically been fantastic on Windows, Apple doesn't even want to talk to you if your hardware or software is more than about 2 years old (just like a smartphone, come to think of it). I have been bit by this one more times than I care to name, and its partially related to the above paragraph. I'm over them both - I can do my computer tasks with Linux, so I'm switching back to same after about 25 years of using Apple and supporting Windows. I'm done.

My other problem with Apple is that its a fucking religion - both from the users as well as corporate. They just double damn dog INSISTED on those horrid single button mice for DECADES after the rest of the world had moved on. New Mac shows up, first thing is to toss that useless mouse and plug in a Logitech or even a Microsoft version. Frankly, if Apple was ANYONE but Apple, they would have literally been laughed out of business years ago. But because they're Apple, everything they do, regardless of how stupid, is a Good Thing (tm). I'm tired of that crap too. People at least get pissed off at Microsoft's stupidity - and on the very rare occasions that M$ actually manages to do something right, there still isn't anybody happy. I got over computer religion about the time I replaced my TRS-80 with an S-100 system.

EDIT: Let's not forget the bullshit proprietary connectors and very fragile dongles you have to use with them on a Mac - and it better not be last year's model as this year's version may not fit/work.

 

[Mike_H]

I am a recent convert to the apple ecosystem. I REALLY like my iPhone 13 and Apple Watch. I like the fact that their stuff plain works…and one of the reasons for that is their lockdown policy for development. Having nearly the same power as my phone in my wrist is pretty awesome for me. I can leave my phone in my desk, and still access it, and my messages, appt alerts, even phone calls. I don’t have to worry about the phone getting dropped in the concrete or in a coolant tank or any number of other dangers that exist in a machine shop manufacturing environment.

As far as the patent theft or infringement, yeah, it happens. All the time and not just by Apple. Every big corporation does it. Doesn’t make it right, but all your favorite products are made by companies that steal intellectual IP. A lot of times, they do it knowingly, because it’s very expensive to defend a patent, and for the small guy, almost impossible. The company that wins is the one with the deepest pocket.

I don’t know who thought the best way to protect a secret was to let the government in on it…best you can do with a novel idea is develop it to a point where it becomes very difficult (and/or expensive) to duplicate, or so complicated that you have to be involved in development to understand it.

 

[Zorba]

My wife had a 2 year old MacBook pro...not a cheap machine by any stretch, go belly up due to a motherboard issue while it was still under warranty. Got that fixed and it lasted a few more years but eventually had to replace it due to something else that was expensive as no longer under warranty.

That's been my only experience with Apple computers, but literally every PC I've ever had gave more years of service with less trouble.

She's had a few iPhones over the years that I always hated dealing with. Even things that should be simple like accessing the memory via USB to copy vacation photos off of it were exercises in rage control. I've got us both using Windows PCs and Google Pixel phones now and things are peachy.

Jobs was, and Apple is, VERY xenophobic. If they didn't invent it, they don't want anything to do with it. Jobs ended discount and mail order sales of his products back in the Apple ][+ days. Then Apple was trying to make the Mac an alternate industry standard, Jobs came back and killed that idea. I'm not a particular fan of Jobs - he was just another Bill Gates, and I don't have much love for him either. Wozniak on the other hand was a friggin' genius - which is why the Apple ][ was a success, using damn little hardware to accomplish things. All from The Woz.

As for hardware reliability, everybody makes the occasional turd (even Apple), and the vast majority of them are in the bottom end of the market. I had to spec, purchase, and support varying levels of computers for our SolidWorks users. The heavy SolidWorks guys got computers that cost between $8k and $10K - even Apple didn't make hardware that powerful. More plebeian users got workstations that cost around $1K, unless their boss approved them for a more expensive Mac - and we had a lot of Mac users (I was one of them). Or you could get a commercial grade laptop - but we didn't have anything whatsoever to do with Best Buy grade hardware. Everyone got a new computer every 3 years if they wanted one. I generally got about 10 years out of mine, I hate upgrading. This particular Mac mini I'm running now is from 2011 - I also have a Windows laptop from 2010 - they're both doing well but I don't know for how much longer.

I find myself having to either use the laptop or my late mother in law's desktop (Both Win7) fairly often as the Mac - thanx to Apple's Xenophobia - won't even connect to many devices that should work as they just present as a USB drive. My cell phone is one of them, if I need to get a picture off of its camera, I have to plug it into a Windows or Linux box - Apple just won't mount the drive. There really is no excuse for this.

 

[Mike_H]

Jobs was, and Apple is, VERY xenophobic. If they didn't invent it, they don't want anything to do with it. Jobs ended discount and mail order sales of his products back in the Apple ][+ days. Then Apple was trying to make the Mac an alternate industry standard, Jobs came back and killed that idea. I'm not a particular fan of Jobs - he was just another Bill Gates, and I don't have much love for him either. Wozniak on the other hand was a friggin' genius - which is why the Apple ][ was a success, using damn little hardware to accomplish things. All from The Woz.

As for hardware reliability, everybody makes the occasional turd (even Apple), and the vast majority of them are in the bottom end of the market. I had to spec, purchase, and support varying levels of computers for our SolidWorks users. The heavy SolidWorks guys got computers that cost between $8k and $10K - even Apple didn't make hardware that powerful. More plebeian users got workstations that cost around $1K, unless their boss approved them for a more expensive Mac - and we had a lot of Mac users (I was one of them). Or you could get a commercial grade laptop - but we didn't have anything whatsoever to do with Best Buy grade hardware. Everyone got a new computer every 3 years if they wanted one. I generally got about 10 years out of mine, I hate upgrading. This particular Mac mini I'm running now is from 2011 - I also have a Windows laptop from 2010 - they're both doing well but I don't know for how much longer.

I find myself having to either use the laptop or my late mother in law's desktop (Both Win7) fairly often as the Mac - thanx to Apple's Xenophobia - won't even connect to many devices that should work as they just present as a USB drive. My cell phone is one of them, if I need to get a picture off of its camera, I have to plug it into a Windows or Linux box - Apple just won't mount the drive. There really is no excuse for this.

windows 7? Seriously?

 

[freedom_in_4low]

I don’t know who thought the best way to protect a secret was to let the government in on it…best you can do with a novel idea is develop it to a point where it becomes very difficult (and/or expensive) to duplicate, or so complicated that you have to be involved in development to understand it.

Generally it's best to save patents for something that's novel but also simple enough that a competitor will be reasonably easily able to figure it out through reverse engineering or even spontaneously on their own. If it's something so complicated that no one would figure it out then it's better kept as a trade secret and tightly controlled within the company.

For example, if the AntiRock was the first sway bar to use splines to attach the arms to the torsion bar, they could patent that attachment method to prevent other companies from using it, because with no patent anybody could see and implement the idea just by looking at one. A trade secret would be something like KFCs 11 herbs and spices, specific steps to produce a desired result of a chemical reaction, or a complex software algorithm.

 

[Zorba]

windows 7? Seriously?

Yep. The computers in question date from that time. As far as I'm concerned, Windows 7 was "peak windows". 8 was an unmitigated disaster, thanx to Balmer's touch religion. 10 is OK - as ugly as home made sin with crude graphics and "flat" icons - but generally runs a bit faster than 7 on equivalent hardware. But it also introduced smartphone-like "Apps" that are mostly pretty useless, and DAMN hard to get rid of. 11 is all that on steroids. More crAppWare, more spyware, even less security, the very hard to get around "Microsoft Account" requirement, etc, etc.

Why the hell would we want anything to do with "Xbox" on a friggin' BUSINESS computer? What a damn joke.

 

[Ocho]

dang I’m not that passionate about consumables to read any of that but the moral of the story doesn’t change.

 

[MikekiM]

NGL, my wife has an Apple watch and it has almost swayed me to get one a few times.

I have two Apple Watches.. the Ultra and an S7. I use Blood Ox fairly often and if that was not available in the Ultra I would not have purchased it. I had a Fenix 5X and a few Suunto Ambits before switching to the Ultra. One of the reasons for the switch was Blood Ox. Better display, improved battery life in the Ultra and the apple ecosystem.

Both AWs have cellular and though I need to stay 'connected' for family reasons, not having to carry a smart phone is wonderful

 

[trojandawg]

The whole Apple versus Google can get as heated as Republican versus Socialist...er Democrat I meant.

 

[Apparition]

The whole Apple versus Google can get as heated as Republican versus Socialist...er Democrat I meant.

LS vs Magnum

 

[machoheadgames]

My wife had a 2 year old MacBook pro...not a cheap machine by any stretch, go belly up due to a motherboard issue while it was still under warranty. Got that fixed and it lasted a few more years but eventually had to replace it due to something else that was expensive as no longer under warranty.

That's been my only experience with Apple computers, but literally every PC I've ever had gave more years of service with less trouble.

She's had a few iPhones over the years that I always hated dealing with. Even things that should be simple like accessing the memory via USB to copy vacation photos off of it were exercises in rage control. I've got us both using Windows PCs and Google Pixel phones now and things are peachy.

Meh. I certainly believe you, but I've had about the opposite experience myself. We bought a $900 HP from Best Buy in 2007, which wasn't exactly cheap or bare bones. It did have craptastic Windows Vista, but that had nothing to do with the issues. It was overall a pretty slow machine....until it died. I don't remember the exact failure but the screen would not come on after about 14 months. I believe it was the graphics card burnt out...whatever it was, motherboard had to be replaced. Bought another one for $1100 this time thinking over a year later and a bit more money for a "better" model would be a better solution. Same crap, but 11 months later this time.

We bought a base model late 2009 "MacBook" to be the new computer. We had one iPhone and a few iPod touches in the family at the time, so we really had no investment into the Apple ecosystem yet, which is why we went base model on that one because we weren't sure we wanted to commit, we just wanted to get away from the HPs. It had 2GB of RAM and a 5400 rpm 250GB HDD. The thing ran great for its time, we had no issues with it. We did want more storage with it, so I swapped it to a 7200 rpm 500GB HDD (SSD was not big yet). It also slowed down a bit on I believe the 4th OS X release that it supported, so I swapped the RAM to 4GB. Back to good. We retired it at 6 years old (still working fine) when we added 2 MacBook Pros to the family.

My MacBook Pro is what I took to college. It only had two failures....the screen dying a flickery death. The first time was due to me - I didn't have a smart TV or cable for the first few years of college and so I would HDMI my laptop to the TV to watch shows. I'd fall asleep constantly with the TV on which led to many many nights of the computer running constantly, screen on. About 3 years in the screen was dead, but it had done the time of about 7-9 years....Got that fixed for $325 at Apple. I retired that laptop at 6 years old when the screen went bad again....the second time is because the cat pushed the laptop off the couch onto hard floor....twice. Oversights on my part leaving the laptop on the couch. The computer itself worked fine, but I was not too sad as it had a 256GB SSD that could not be upgraded without soldering work. So I wanted something different anyways, and by this time I had graduated and didn't need a laptop anyways.

My work Windows laptops have had SSDs and 16GB of RAM and while they haven't had "failures", they aren't pleasurable machines to use in my opinion. Pros and cons to both options, I guess. And trust me, I have plenty of complaints with Apple's Mac software decisions, but I still prefer them as the machine to use over Windows.

I have had many iPhones since 2010 and while they have their flaws too, I simply can't fathom using any of the Androids I've ever tried. Not to mention Androids are often even more expensive than iPhones nowadays and have less storage options, even when SD storage cards are an option. Most issues I've had with iPhones themselves are dumb software glitches that are overlooked. The example of moving photos to a USB stick I can't relate to....I've used iCloud for my photos and they sync to the Photos app on my mac and iCloud.com for Windows. Never had a single complaint with that service. Now with USB-C ports, I have to imagine moving photos to a flash drive is probably easier than it used to be. For sending them to another iPhone, AirDrop and iMessage are perfect, and for sending to an Android, I'd probably drop them a 30 day link to them on iCloud.

These days I have an old iMac, iPad Pro, iPhone 15 PM, and Apple Watch Ultra. I like them all for different reasons. The Windows work laptop is "fine", I just don't prefer it often. I much prefer to run Windows on the Mac if I can.

 

[trojandawg]

LS vs Magnum

Stuffing vs dressing

 

[Zorba]

Meh. I certainly believe you, but I've had about the opposite experience myself. We bought a $900 HP from Best Buy in 2007, which wasn't exactly cheap or bare bones. It did have craptastic Windows Vista, but that had nothing to do with the issues. It was overall a pretty slow machine....until it died. I don't remember the exact failure but the screen would not come on after about 14 months. I believe it was the graphics card burnt out...whatever it was, motherboard had to be replaced. Bought another one for $1100 this time thinking over a year later and a bit more money for a "better" model would be a better solution. Same crap, but 11 months later this time.

What went wrong here was you bought the computers at Best Buy. Best Buy - and to be fair - just about every brick and mortar store that sells computers sells consumer grade crap. Buy a COMMERCIAL grade system from HP, Lenovo, or Dell. 7 years ago, HP's commercial grade laptops started at about $850, desktops from about $1,100. That was when I retired, so I dunno about now. I've had literally HUNDREDS of commercial grade systems last 10,15 or even 20 years. If you get 5 out of a consumer grade computer, you're doing good. PCM - aka "PC Mall" is but one online retailer that sells both types.

A $400 consumer grade system will likely have better reading specs than a $850 commercial grade. The former may have a better/faster processor and more memory. To equal that, the commercial grade will cost $1,300 or more. The difference is in reliability and longevity. They're just designed and built better. Again, Apple does not sell consumer grade crap, thus their "high" prices.

Lastly, if you need a laptop, get a laptop. But if you do not need a laptop, buy a desktop. Cheaper for the same hardware specs, and generally far more reliable. I was always working on laptops for one reason or another, desktops were few and far between by comparison. Besides, you can put a nice large screen - or multiples - on a desktop easily, and have a nicer keyboard too. There's also lots of people who need laptops get a docking station so they can have big screens, keyboards, mice, whatever when they're at their desk. For whatever reason, Apple has never embraced that model.

 

[freedom_in_4low]

There's also lots of people who need laptops get a docking station so they can have big screens, keyboards, mice, whatever when they're at their desk. For whatever reason, Apple has never embraced that model.

That's me. I visit jobsites where I need to plug into a network and configure devices, sniff network traffic, etc, but I'm at home 90% of the time with a USB-C docking station, dual (or triple, if I open the laptop) monitors and ergonomic input devices.

Working with a 15" i5 HP on Windows 10 and it's in great shape and works just as well as it did when they issued it to me. My hardware needs aren't extreme but I have to provide detailed specs or they'll do something dumb like give me one without an ethernet port which won't work for my purposes (and I won't deal with a finicky USB to ethernet dongle), and some of the spreadsheets I have to work with will bog down machines with only 8GB of RAM.

A lot of my software is Windows-only as well. I have a couple of colleagues that are Apple-heads and our IT group plays along but then they spend most of their time in a virtual Windows session to do what we do, which seems dumb to me.

 

[Ocho]

There's also lots of people who need laptops get a docking station so they can have big screens, keyboards, mice, whatever when they're at their desk. For whatever reason, Apple has never embraced that model.

more fake news. i'm docked right now on an apple. 3 screens, 2 printers, 2 external hard drives, ethernet, hardwired mouse and keyboard. dock fits in my pocket.

 

[machoheadgames]

What went wrong here was you bought the computers at Best Buy. Best Buy - and to be fair - just about every brick and mortar store that sells computers sells consumer grade crap. Buy a COMMERCIAL grade system from HP, Lenovo, or Dell. 7 years ago, HP's commercial grade laptops started at about $850, desktops from about $1,100. That was when I retired, so I dunno about now. I've had literally HUNDREDS of commercial grade systems last 10,15 or even 20 years. If you get 5 out of a consumer grade computer, you're doing good. PCM - aka "PC Mall" is but one online retailer that sells both types.

Well, that is true. To be fair, I didn't buy the laptop. This was my parents, I was only a kid. But I was the one using it 99% of the time as my dad had his own much better HP that lasted far longer and my mom used the one I used only when needed (rare). I don't doubt what you are saying, I am well aware that Best Buy's shelf crap is crap, which is why we gave up on it. Their Mac stuff is fine, assuming the specs meet what you need which is why the Mac worked fine for us as it did. All I'm saying is I've had the opposite experience as freedom did, which he said had better success with cheap PCs than the wife's Mac. Which I still do not doubt, it just hasn't been my experience.

I also get the laptop vs desktop thing and while most of the time I don't "need" a laptop, it sure is nice to have near or better than desktop levels of computing power while still being able to go mobile. I'm overall fine with my iMac but it is not in a convenient location and I don't really have a convenient place to move it to. For that reason, the next thing I buy, Mac or Windows, will be a laptop.

For whatever reason, Apple has never embraced that model.

Apple doesn't embrace the docking station model, no, although they do embrace hooking a Mac up to anywhere between 1-4 screens (depending on laptop graphics/processor capability) and using a USB-C cable you can get all the port expansion you need via the ports on the monitor instead of being hooked to a dock. I actually adopted this concept on my latest Windows workstation at work. The Dell branded docks I have used over the years have all been flaming garbage...over time they either glitch out and stop charging the laptop, ports like the ethernet stop working, etc.

I got a set of 2 Dell U2722DE "USB-C hub" monitors, and I got it to where I have full docking station functionality, plentiful USB ports, all on the two monitors and everything hooks up to my laptop with one single USB-C cable (and Monitor 1 charges the laptop). A simple stand to hold the laptop vertically while the cable is plugged in and my desk setup at work is without a doubt the most useful it has ever been. Others seem to have good luck with docks but I have not had that experience.

 

[machoheadgames]

more fake news. i'm docked right now on an apple. 3 screens, 2 printers, 2 external hard drives, ethernet, hardwired mouse and keyboard. dock fits in my pocket.

What is your method for that? I haven't liked the dock options for Mac, much less Windows either. To be fair, he's saying Apple didn't adopt that model, which they don't. Doesn't mean you can't dock, but Apple doesn't officially offer anything to support docking solutions.

 

[freedom_in_4low]

I have had many iPhones since 2010 and while they have their flaws too, I simply can't fathom using any of the Androids I've ever tried. Not to mention Androids are often even more expensive than iPhones nowadays and have less storage options, even when SD storage cards are an option. Most issues I've had with iPhones themselves are dumb software glitches that are overlooked. The example of moving photos to a USB stick I can't relate to....I've used iCloud for my photos and they sync to the Photos app on my mac and iCloud.com for Windows. Never had a single complaint with that service. Now with USB-C ports, I have to imagine moving photos to a flash drive is probably easier than it used to be. For sending them to another iPhone, AirDrop and iMessage are perfect, and for sending to an Android, I'd probably drop them a 30 day link to them on iCloud.

I don't like most Androids because of the manufacturer and carrier bloatware. That's why I buy Google Pixels which are vanilla Android. They also have really good cameras, the current newest generation is about $800, and I'm still using one 5 generations old, from 2018. I usually wait a couple years and buy them still NIB for $250 or so. I'm gonna try to hold onto this Pixel 3 until the 7 comes down in price. It still works fine but I could use some more storage space.

I had an iPhone 3G for about 2 years until software updates crippled it. I don't have any sort of Apple account and it's always a pain in the ass trying to get photos from someone with an Apple phone. My cousin uses one and his are always the most difficult to get out of our wheeling group. I just have no patience for dealing with a company that goes out of their way to make their stuff incompatible with everyone else's, just for the sake of forcing people to go all-in with their ecosystem out of frustration. To me it comes across as a crutch to sell products that aren't good enough to bring the consumers on their own merit.

 

[Ocho]

What is your method for that? I haven't liked the dock options for Mac, much less Windows either. To be fair, he's saying Apple didn't adopt that model, which they don't. Doesn't mean you can't dock, but Apple doesn't officially offer anything to support docking solutions.

I get to my desk, plug in one thunderbolt cable and done. oh shit, apple partnered with intel and developed the thunderbolt cable. that's what apple offers to support docking solutions.

if it has to be apple branded to be an "official" solution then I can't help anyone there.

again, I'm not here to argue for or against anything and the moral of the story still hasn't changed.