So..I replaced all my front end parts (zj tie rod, drag link, ball joints, stabilizer) and got rid of the shake the jeep had. The steering has a small leak but I don’t think that’s the issue. I have quite a lot of play in the steering and am wondering if the box needs replacing or if I’m missing something. With the jeep off you can see/feel play in the box (I believe that’s where the play is). I’m not real sure how to diagnose further. Any help is appreciated.
Sloppy steering new front end
- Thread starter cwilson
- Start date
I think that may be just what I needed. Plan to try this weekend and will report back with findings. I appreciate the response as I have spent lots of time searching this but it can be a bit overwhelming with all the "loose steering" threads.
If there is any play at all in the steering gear - meaning if rotational movement of the input shaft is not immediately translated into movement of the sector shaft (output shaft) - then the steering gear is the problem. It cannot be adjusted, it must be replaced or rebuilt.
Just make sure the play is not coming from the joints in the steering shaft between the steering gear and the steering wheel.
Its more about the reasons a box gets loose that the adjustment screw won't fix and can make worse.
The FSM procedure is more involved than just turning the screw.
The FSM can't compensate for a worn bore where the piston rides. The bore wears on center since that is where the piston lives most of the time. As it moves further into the bore on each end, it tightens up because there is less slop in those places. How do you adjust that out? The answer is you can't. If you adjust it to be tight on center, then it is too tight out in the not worn bore sections and return to center is highly compromised. If you adjust it to have return to center, then there is too much slop on center.
So guys like me can argue with folks that think it does something good to adjust that screw in the rig.
That was pretty forward thinking of them.
I'm sure you've read the FSM procedure, but it seemed like the first step of the process was to actually rotate the "adjustment cap" to adjust the worm thrust bearing preload. Adjusting the screw on the top is the 2nd step, but I'm not trying to pretend I have any idea what these adjustments do inside the box. I guess Im just surprised that they have a section devoted to something that doesn't really fix anything. Not arguing, just trying to understand.
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Isn't that procedure more for initial setup? It's right after the section where they rebuild the gear. I'm thinking it's not to adjust for a worn out gear.
This is what is inside the steering gear. The piston has a section of gear that mates up to a section of matching tapered gear on the sector shaft. The back lash for those is set by adjusting that screw to move the sector shaft up and down very similar to setting the back lash in an axle ring and pinion by shimming the carrier back and forth and the pinion in and out.
The partial gear on the shaft is tapered.
That meshes with the teeth cut in the side of the piston you can see in the cut-away. The adjustment screw moves that shaft up and down to set the back lash. Up higher, more lash, down lower is less lash.
The piston spends the vast majority of the time during use with the tires straight ahead or the piston centered in the bore. That is the area that will get the most wear. As the wear gets bad enough, folks will try to compensate by tightening up the lash and forcing the piston over to one side in the bore a tiny bit. That will improve the amount of slop at the steering wheel but it does so at the expense of good return to center or can.
You're not trying very hard.
Can you adjust parking brake shoes enough to fix them if they have no lining left on them? The FSM tells you how to adjust them, why would they do that if it doesn't fix worn out ones?
Can you adjust the excessive back lash on a ring and pinion set that has wiped the case hardening off of the tooth faces? The FSM tells you how to set up the gears, why would it do that if it can't fix worn out gear sets?
What about the band adjustment in the 32RH? The FSM tells you how to adjust them, why would it do that if it won't fix excessively worn linings?
Or, perhaps they include that so we can adjust less worn near new or new stuff that may not have shown up correctly adjusted. I've dealt with many where the builder (not rebuilder) had them slightly off. They were a tiny bit too tight and we had very little return to center so we adjust the screw in very small increments with a test drive after each. I tend to keep that info to myself because of posts like are in this thread. Folks don't understand what is going on and mistakenly think that if I can adjust a gear and make it work, then they can do the same thing and fix their worn out beat to hell sloppy steering gear.
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What I don’t understand is how you keep oil in that thing…
Great explanation, Blaine.
Well. After some diagnosing and such, it was decided that the box itself needs replacing.
Trying to decide if I wanna try and go with a used one or just say the heck with it and put new on. This isn't my daily driver by any stretch but I still want to be able to hop in and drive when I want. We had some snow/ice the past couple days and driving on that with play in the steering was interesting to say the least.
I appreciate the help in understanding how to diagnose this. Time to fix it and on to the next shitbox problem.
Trying to decide if I wanna try and go with a used one or just say the heck with it and put new on. This isn't my daily driver by any stretch but I still want to be able to hop in and drive when I want. We had some snow/ice the past couple days and driving on that with play in the steering was interesting to say the least.
I appreciate the help in understanding how to diagnose this. Time to fix it and on to the next shitbox problem.
Avoid Cardone if you go rebuilt. I used to think RedHead was a good replacement but I've been seeing bad reviews of them recently.
Well. After some diagnosing and such, it was decided that the box itself needs replacing.
Trying to decide if I wanna try and go with a used one or just say the heck with it and put new on. This isn't my daily driver by any stretch but I still want to be able to hop in and drive when I want. We had some snow/ice the past couple days and driving on that with play in the steering was interesting to say the least.
I appreciate the help in understanding how to diagnose this. Time to fix it and on to the next shitbox problem.
Is it worth the time and money to throw a used box on and take the gamble? Look at the new lares brand boxes on rock auto. Several here have had good luck with them.
Redhead seems to be the best replacement option, but they're not cheap and you have to ship the core back to them. Lares seems to be about the same price iirc, although I don't think Rock Auto has the core charge.
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