Open loop, closed loop temperature?

[jjvw]

Guess I wasted a lot of your time by making you type out that long winded response to everything I was having an open mind about.
Sorry for wasting your time sir I will put a 195* stat in since being actually open minded is a no no on this forum I guess.

You do realize that is isn't our first rodeo?

 

[2000tjguy]

Pictures of your friend's buggies don't change how your system operates. You should be able to climb/crawl all day locked in 4low without having any issues. Guys in here have beat on their vehicles in the heat of summer in Johnson Valley, AZ, UT, and CO without any issues. Super awesome photo though

Sorry man was just pointing out some people have different opinions on what they do with there rigs lol… either way everything is going to be new in the system, it will be flushed and since apparently anything outside a 195* stat is a crime I’ll go ahead and put a 195* stat back in so I stop offending people and stop getting talked down to

 

[2000tjguy]

You do realize that is isn't our first rodeo?

Apparently it’s mine I guess…

 

[MikeE024]

Sorry man was just pointing out some people have different opinions on what they do with there rigs lol… either way everything is going to be new in the system, it will be flushed and since apparently anything outside a 195* stat is a crime I’ll go ahead and put a 195* stat back in so I stop offending people and stop getting talked down to

Folks are attempting to help you make the best decision for you and your rig to work properly. If that threatens you and causes you to mock those same people then you may want to rethink more than your troubleshooting logic.

 

[2000tjguy]

Folks are attempting to help you make the best decision for you and your rig to work properly. If that threatens you and causes you to mock those same people then you may want to rethink more than your troubleshooting logic.

Doesn’t threaten me at all, I asked a simple question that could of had a simple answer but the majority of the replies didn’t at all answer the question at hand but that’s on me for even bring that part up in my question.
In all honesty I don’t get why there is even an argument if supposedly any stat temp doesn’t make a difference in cooling at all, if they all run the same then what makes a difference if a person runs a 160* 180* or a 195*?

 

[2000tjguy]

If you learn one thing here, please learn that a thermostat that is operating as designed has NO ability to cause or help an engine run even 1 degree cooler in warm or hot conditions. Really. Learn that the thermostat has just two jobs and two abilities: 1) to help the engine warm up faster and 2) to help set a minimum operating temperature in cold conditions. If it's hot out the engine will run at the same temperature whether it's running a 165, 180, or a 195 degree thermostat. Really.

If you need an engine to run cooler in hot conditions look at the radiator, fan shroud, fan clutch or water pump.

I understand where you’re coming from and what you’re trying to say I’m just seeing different results on the high end. Maybe my 195* was junk and that was causing the over heating issue who knows but I do know my 160* stat hasn’t been above 170* in the same exact conditions and place as I was having the over heating issues which leads me to believe my cooling system is fine.
With the 160* stat opening sooner in theory if the cooling system is up to the task it will run cooler.
To make everyone’s lives easier I’ll just put a new 195* stat in it so all the back and forth bs can be put to and end cause frankly I have better things to do than argue on forums with people I never even tried arguing with.

 

[MikeE024]

Doesn’t threaten me at all, I asked a simple question that could of had a simple answer but the majority of the replies didn’t at all answer the question at hand but that’s on me for even bring that part up in my question.
In all honesty I don’t get why there is even an argument if supposedly any stat temp doesn’t make a difference in cooling at all, if they all run the same then what makes a difference if a person runs a 160* 180* or a 195*?

It's meant to help the engine heat up sooner to achieve the predetermined optimal running temperature (it sets the floor). Once it's at that temp it opens, then the cooling fan or wind blowing into the radiator cools it down and the thermostat closes if the ECTs go below it's set number...and then opens up again once that temp has been reached. (repeat)

If the optimal running temperature was let's say 135*, then that's what the engineers would have installed and instructed us to install in the FSM. Additionally, the consensus from guys with a ridiculous amount of seat time is that the 195* thermostat is not your problem if you are overheating in the CO trails.

 

[MikeE024]

I understand where you’re coming from and what you’re trying to say I’m just seeing different results on the high end. Maybe my 195* was junk and that was causing the over heating issue who knows but I do know my 160* stat hasn’t been above 170* in the same exact conditions and place as I was having the over heating issues which leads me to believe my cooling system is fine.
With the 160* stat opening sooner in theory if the cooling system is up to the task it will run cooler.
To make everyone’s lives easier I’ll just put a new 195* stat in it so all the back and forth bs can be put to and end cause frankly I have better things to do than argue on forums with people I never even tried arguing with.

Google why it's bad to run without a thermostat and that may help you better understand. IRCC, doing so can even lead to too much fuel reaching your oil and cats. Let me know if I'm wrong.

 

[2000tjguy]

It's meant to help the engine heat up sooner to achieve the predetermined optimal running temperature (it sets the floor). Once it's at that temp it opens, then the cooling fan or wind blowing into the radiator cools it down and the thermostat closes if the ECTs go below it's set number...and then opens up again once that temp has been reached. (repeat)

If the optimal running temperature was let's say 135*, then that's what the engineers would have installed and instructed us to install in the FSM. Additionally, the consensus from guys with a ridiculous amount of seat time is that the 195* thermostat is not your problem if you are overheating in the CO trails.

I know how a thermostat works and this didn’t happen in Colorado.
I get it you can stop worrying I’ll go back to a 195* stat…

 

[Wildman]

I guess I am still confused as to why you were wondering when it goes into closed loop or open loop.

A few things I got for searching a little.

So if you're maxing out your cooling system at the racetrack and experiencing some overheating issues, for example, a low-temp thermostat will often solve this problem by letting the radiator work more at part-throttle lower engine loads and in the process delay or completely eliminate any overheating during wide-open .

The biggest misunderstanding about thermostats is that people believe they make the engine run cooler. They don't necessarily do that. The cooling system and load on the engine determines how hot the engine gets, the thermostat fully open will still be the mercy of the coolant system's ability to remove heat.

Most engines run slightly above the thermostat's minimum opening temperature under normal loads. Under high loads, they will run at or above the thermostat's fully open temperature - in other words, under hard driving, the thermostat's opening temperature is completely irrelevant.

The thermostat can only determine when the cooling system is allowed to start cooling the engine. It sets a floor, not a ceiling on engine temperatures. The thermostat basically behaves like the hot and cold knobs in your shower, if the water is too hot, it turns the cold on a little more and if the water is to cold, it turns up the hot water.By regulating the flow through the cooling system it speeds up and slows down the flow of coolant into and out of the engine block.

Modern engines (including yours) are designed to run best at ~ 190-200F. That's why the factory put the Tstat in in the first place. A colder engine will 1) increase wear, 2) reduce power output, 3) increase fuel consumption, and 4) increase emissions.

So my only argument for running the 195* t-stat is for your engine to be running most efficiently. From everything I've ever understood was that to run a cooler t-stat you needed to adjust your tune to do so.

 

[jjvw]

.... Additionally, the consensus from guys with a ridiculous amount of seat time is that the 195* thermostat is not your problem if you are overheating in the CO trails.

I am quite confident in saying that a well functioning factory cooling system will not overheat on the hottest of Colorado days out on the trails. I also know from direct personal experience that cold air cowl induction and hood venting will result in the engine running just to the left of 210 on the dash gauge.

All the weird jibber jabber about open/closed loop having anything to do with anything in this thread is still lost on me. Except that asking the question within this context suggests a lack of understanding about how the factory cooling system regulates itself without any direction from the PCM.

 

[2000tjguy]

Google why it's bad to run without a thermostat and that may help you better understand. IRCC, doing so can even lead to too much fuel reaching your oil and cats. Let me know if I'm wrong.

There is a difference in running no stat and a lower temp stat… if a 15* change in coolant temp will change the cylinder temp enough to drown the bottom end with gas then we have bigger problems… cat? What’s a cat?

 

[MikeE024]

All the weird jibber jabber about open/closed loop having anything to do with anything in this thread is still lost on me. Except that asking the question within this context suggests a lack of understanding about how the factory cooling system regulates itself without any direction from the PCM.

He wants to be in CL but doesn't want to overheat...which he had happen with a 195*.

He believes, or at least is hoping, that his cooling system might be good and that he just needs to run a lower thermostat...and that leads him to asking at what temp does the system go into CL because he deep down knows that he's potentially doing something he shouldn't. He just hasn't admitted it to himself yet.

"he's being partially open-minded"

 

[jjvw]

There is a difference in running no stat and a lower temp stat… if a 15* change in coolant temp will change the cylinder temp enough to drown the bottom end with gas then we have bigger problems… cat? What’s a cat?

Clearly this. You don't want oil in your cat.

 

[jjvw]

He wants to be in CL but doesn't want to overheat...which he had happen with a 195*.

He believes, or at least is hoping, that his cooling system might be good and that he just needs to run a lower thermostat...and that leads him to asking at what temp does the system go into CL because he deep down knows that he's potentially doing something he shouldn't. He just hasn't admitted it to himself yet.

"he's being partially open-minded"

When my engine overheated that one time, I turned down the volume on the radio and I think that did something.

 

[2000tjguy]

I guess I am still confused as to why you were wondering when it goes into closed loop or open loop.

A few things I got for searching a little.









So my only argument for running the 195* t-stat is for your engine to be running most efficiently. From everything I've ever understood was that to run a cooler t-stat you needed to adjust your tune to do so.

I am quite confident in saying that a well functioning factory cooling system will not overheat on the hottest of Colorado days out on the trails. I also know from direct personal experience that cold air cowl induction and hood venting will result in the engine running just to the left of 210 on the dash gauge.

All the weird jibber jabber about open/closed loop having anything to do with anything in this thread is still lost on me. Except that asking the question within this context suggests a lack of understanding about how the factory cooling system regulates itself without any direction from the PCM.

Again the overheating didn’t happen in Colorado but that’s neither here nor there and the question asked was at what temp these go into to closed loop.
Mainly just asking a simple question cause I haven’t seen a solid answer to that question but I guess this has to spin to everything I’m doing is wrong

 

[2000tjguy]

Clearly this. You don't want oil in your cat.
View attachment 493980

I get it now… my cat fell off long ago…

 

[MikeE024]

Again the overheating didn’t happen in Colorado but that’s neither here nor there and the question asked was at what temp these go into to closed loop.
Mainly just asking a simple question cause I haven’t seen a solid answer to that question but I guess this has to spin to everything I’m doing is wrong

You should run a 180* and then tell us if it runs in CL.

 

[2000tjguy]

You should run a 180* and then tell us if it runs in CL.

Nope putting a brand new shinny 195* in it.

 

[jjvw]

Again the overheating didn’t happen in Colorado but that’s neither here nor there and the question asked was at what temp these go into to closed loop.
Mainly just asking a simple question cause I haven’t seen a solid answer to that question but I guess this has to spin to everything I’m doing is wrong

Buy yourself an ODBII reader that will tell you if the PCM is in open or closed loop. Using that information you can figure out whatever it is you are trying to figure out.