Shady used car dealers

[chili_pepper]

Care to elaborate? I'm currently used car shopping, trying to find an individual selling, but these used car dealers are overwhelming with marketing, which is what my wire sees the most.

Well, we're talking circa 1992, so not exactly current or incredibly fresh in my memory. That said, part of what got me was the games played in selling new cars (additional/hidden fees, throwing things in with little real value to "sweeten" deals, general financing fuckery, undercutting trade-in values - typical shady sales stuff, I suppose) but more so profit margin on repairs. If you've ever wondered why a new car can get totaled out easily by a fairly minor incident, or why dealer parts tend to cost quite a bit more than elsewhere, it all makes sense when you see the internal workings. For example, body shop customers unknowingly paid for two markups on every part that went on their car for a repair, a rather substantial one from the parts department to the body shop, then another from the body shop to the customer. It adds up quickly.

If you're looking used, you've probably already helped yourself a bit in IMHO. New car values are grossly inflated. The amount of money you lose the minute you drive off the lot with a new vehicle is painful. You can likely get a much better deal going newer used, where someone bought a new car, didn't like it and sold it back or traded it in, or they didn't make the payments and it got repo'd.

 

[TheBoogieman]

I only buy from private party sellers. Dealers have no idea the history of any vehicle they sell. PP sellers can lie, but you can usually tell when someone is FOS. Dealer prices are much higher and they're less likely to give you a good deal too. People like me sell pretty cheap when money is an issue.

 

[AndyG]

Pharmaceuticals is worse, they're just not as widely hated because they poison us with the blessing of the United States government.

I have a brother that is in pharmaceuticals, uh....free lance. Its a rough crowd.

 

[Zorba]

I have had the best luck buying a used car from the used lot of a new car dealer. Private parties, not so much. I've ever only bought one vehicle from a used lot - and that was my Jeep. I was fairly impressed with how they treated me, and I don't impress easily. As for new, I've never just walked onto a lot and bought a new car - every time I have ever tried that, I end up getting into a fight with either the salesman or more often the sales manager - I have ZERO patience with the bullshit games. I've even tried telling them that up front, they don't believe me until its too late. I've bought new cars via brokers, AAA deals, etc.

 

[Danarch]

I have had the best luck buying a used car from the used lot of a new car dealer. Private parties, not so much. I've ever only bought one vehicle from a used lot - and that was my Jeep. I was fairly impressed with how they treated me, and I don't impress easily. As for new, I've never just walked onto a lot and bought a new car - every time I have ever tried that, I end up getting into a fight with either the salesman or more often the sales manager - I have ZERO patience with the bullshit games. I've even tried telling them that up front, they don't believe me until its too late. I've bought new cars via brokers, AAA deals, etc.

The last two new vehicles I bought the price was agreed on via email before I ever stepped on the lot. This was back when internet sales just started happening.

 

[DuckNut]

I know a beautiful tan LJ for sale. I believe 73k miles (don't hold me to that. But it's close) southern truck, no drips and zero rust.

 

[Hamfists]

I know a beautiful tan LJ for sale. I believe 73k miles (don't hold me to that. But it's close) southern truck, no drips and zero rust.

I’m in Southern California, rust is not an issue with most jeeps here mainly UV damage on paint and plastic but that is much easier to deal with than rust

Most jeeps are overpriced here along with everything else, I’m always looking for the right Jeep at the right price , currently own 2 jeeps but I have wanted a lj since 2004 this one looked like it was very clean with quality aftermarket parts

This place was not a corner used car lot , it’s a giant new Toyota dealership owned by a nation wide company, so I figured the picture in the ad was real ,clean jeeps that are reasonably priced get sold right away

Sometimes the places get off brand trade ins and just want to move them along
Clean LJs are usually way overpriced Typically listed for 20k to 50k

Just posted my experience with this place so someone else does not waist there time like I did

 

[Hamfists]

This was the only rust that was on my 98

 

[MaximusLJR06]

Two weeks ago I traveled 3 hours to buy a newer (2022, 25K Miles) vehicle, had the check in hand for it. I've bought out of state before so I asked for additional photos up front. They sent a couple that showed minor scratches, but that was it. Clean frame etc. Got there and almost immediately left. 3 large scratches on the passenger front fender, completely through the paint and down to bare metal and the front end was littered with 40-50 stone chips. Still test drove it, but gave the keys back and told them I wasn't going to buy it because of all the paint issues that weren't disclosed to me. Surprisingly they filled the tank on our car for the drive back and were somewhat apologetic. Could have saved us a lot of headache though if they would have been up front about it to begin with.

 

[Hamfists]

Two weeks ago I traveled 3 hours to buy a newer (2022, 25K Miles) vehicle, had the check in hand for it. I've bought out of state before so I asked for additional photos up front. They sent a couple that showed minor scratches, but that was it. Clean frame etc. Got there and almost immediately left. 3 large scratches on the passenger front fender, completely through the paint and down to bare metal and the front end was littered with 40-50 stone chips. Still test drove it, but gave the keys back and told them I wasn't going to buy it because of all the paint issues that weren't disclosed to me. Surprisingly they filled the tank on our car for the drive back and were somewhat apologetic. Could have saved us a lot of headache though if they would have been up front about it to begin with.

This place just wanted me gone after I called them out , and told them they needed use real pictures. Even made a realistic offer on the jeep they had , showed the the blue book estimate listed on there own ad 10k to 13 k showed them another almost identical jeep for 10k , it was an dirty 06 TJR , stock except for a rusty roof rack drilled through the body for installation, they offered was a loan option and would not budge of there price

All I got was bumper to bumper traffic most of the way home

 

[freedom_in_4low]

Two weeks ago I traveled 3 hours to buy a newer (2022, 25K Miles) vehicle, had the check in hand for it. I've bought out of state before so I asked for additional photos up front. They sent a couple that showed minor scratches, but that was it. Clean frame etc. Got there and almost immediately left. 3 large scratches on the passenger front fender, completely through the paint and down to bare metal and the front end was littered with 40-50 stone chips. Still test drove it, but gave the keys back and told them I wasn't going to buy it because of all the paint issues that weren't disclosed to me. Surprisingly they filled the tank on our car for the drive back and were somewhat apologetic. Could have saved us a lot of headache though if they would have been up front about it to begin with.

My dad has, on multiple occasions, negotiated a new lower price when the vehicle wasn't as described even in relatively small ways. One time he had them drop the price $500 because the owners manual was gone. I probably would have given them the chance to salvage the sale, but I also hate car shopping so it's worth something to me to not start over.

 

[ChasUGC]

Pharmaceuticals is worse, they're just not as widely hated because they poison us with the blessing of the United States government.

That's not true. I work in the pharmaceutical industry. The pharmaceutical industry is highly regulated. What you may be talking about is that a lot of drugs have potential side effects. But, the same thing can be side about a lot of products especially alcohol and even cannabis. I mean look at the side effects of chemotherapy. Still, some people would rather lose their hair for awhile than lose their life.

 

[chili_pepper]

The pharmaceutical industry is

a criminal enterprise.

 

[MikeE024]

Somebody explain this to me-

What is it with the car industry?

Reputation wise they have ruined themselves.

I don’t know of any other industries that comes close.

People hate them.

People slip on car lots at night to look at cars just because they are afraid of the people that work there.

How have they taken something that Americans absolutely love and turned into this?

I really want to know.

I mean why is corruption so widespread through that particular industry. Why do they have to use their tactics to sell something that people want to buy?

I’m not saying that every car dealer or sales person is a crook. I even worked as a car salesman for a short period of time when I was younger. I work at a small used dealership that had a phenomenal reputation and sold nice cars. And they did shady dealings. I saw a girl purchase a car with 160,000 miles and it was sold with paperwork that said 60,000 miles.

I live about 35 minutes away from an area called Albertville that is famous for irreputable used car dealers. For about 8 miles there is a car lot every block seemingly. I don’t know how many people in that area have gone to prison for rolling back odometers and Lord knows what else.


What is unique about the car industry that makes people do this?

Sadly, it’s not just car sales. For example, the vehicle transportation & logistics industry greatly involves some of the lowest forms of bait-and-switch that you’ll ever encounter. By time the customer realizes they are being screwed, it’s almost always too late due to their desperation in needing to get their vehicle moved and being on a time crunch.

Edit: Same goes for many mechanics shops, house builders, AC repairman, health care providers, and insurance companies…it’s nasty out there.

 

[GregBelleville]

That's not true. I work in the pharmaceutical industry. The pharmaceutical industry is highly regulated. What you may be talking about is that a lot of drugs have potential side effects. But, the same thing can be side about a lot of products especially alcohol and even cannabis. I mean look at the side effects of chemotherapy. Still, some people would rather lose their hair for awhile than lose their life.

Found the Purdue Pharma rep if anyone is looking for some cheap Oxy.

 

[Westtown Willy]

What is it with the car industry?

Reputation wise they have ruined themselves.

I don’t know of any other industries that comes close.

 

[MikeE024]

The pharmaceutical industry is highly regulated.

Just like how the highly regulated financial industry typically makes its decisions in the best interests of the American people.

I worked in the "highly regulated" surgical device industry. Not until the late 2000s did prices finally drop 2x-4x for the same hardware (e.g., pedicle screws) that typically made salesman more money than their managers and sometimes more than their CEOs. Combine price gouging with overselling through relationships and other forms of corruption, and you have a major problem.

Most folks I worked with were Surgeons & OR staff or device reps who sometimes came from the Pharm space. It's a badly kept not-so-secret that pharmaceutical companies would too often rather treat a patient many times over many years rather than cure the patient in short order (for obvious reasons).

Not all reps are bad, and the space has certainly gotten better, but it isn't deserving of a reputable status because it's largely still a money grab (IMO). This tends to happen in instances when customers are limited by insurance coverage constraints (which can be corrupt in itself) or rely on experts to do right by them since they aren't educated on the subject.

The underlying theme is that many people are selfish and will do mental gymnastics to justify their immoral acts. (not a personal attack on you btw)

 

[freedom_in_4low]

Just like how the highly regulated financial industry typically makes its decisions in the best interests of the American people.

I worked in the "highly regulated" surgical device industry. Not until the late 2000s did prices finally drop 2x-4x for the same hardware (e.g., pedicle screws) that typically made salesman more money than their managers and sometimes more than their CEOs. Combine price gouging with overselling through relationships and other forms of corruption, and you have a major problem.

Most folks I worked with were Surgeons & OR staff or device reps who sometimes came from the Pharm space. It's a badly kept not-so-secret that pharmaceutical companies would too often rather treat a patient many times over many years rather than cure the patient in short order (for obvious reasons).

Not all reps are bad, and the space has certainly gotten better, but it isn't deserving of a reputable status because it's largely still a money grab (IMO). This tends to happen in instances when customers are limited by insurance coverage constraints (which can be corrupt in itself) or rely on experts to do right by them since they aren't educated on the subject.

The underlying theme is that many people are selfish and will do mental gymnastics to justify their immoral acts. (not a personal attack on you btw)

My cousin works for Medtronic. I listened to him rant for 15 minutes a few weeks ago about how messed up the pedicle screw scene is. I knew what a pedicle was from helping my wife study for her RT but I'd never heard of a pedicle screw until 6 weeks ago and now two people have mentioned them to me as examples of corruption in the industry.

 

[BlueC]

The amount of money you lose the minute you drive off the lot with a new vehicle is painful.

That's reason #1 why I won't buy a new vehicle. Price is reason #2. Uninteresting, tech-heavy modern vehicles is reason #3, but I don't want to summon zorba into my purchase.

 

[BlueC]

I only buy from private party sellers. Dealers have no idea the history of any vehicle they sell. PP sellers can lie, but you can usually tell when someone is FOS. Dealer prices are much higher and they're less likely to give you a good deal too.

I prefer an individual seller, mostly for the maintenance/history reason. I did just go look at a vehicle from an individual who I caught lying and trying to cover up things. I don't know why people are slimy like that. If I wasn't a "picky asshole" as my wife suggest, that dude might have off loaded his problems onto me. I'm sure he'll try it with someone else.