TJ, fighting the rust battle or go with a JK?

[TJTimmah]

I would keep the TJ for sure! I've been in a JK and basically, it felt like driving my wife's Liberty. I guess I'm more into the Jeep heritage. CJ's and earlier were basic vehicles. They had no frills, no $15k worth of electronics, and were just awesome off-road vehicles that got adapted for street! That's what I like. To be honest, I was hesitant on the TJ due to the 'full' dash that it has. I'm used to it now though, so it's all perspective I guess, lol. Anyway, fix the TJ yourself, save a mint, and bond even more with it!

On a side note, Shell Valley told me in late 2016 that they were approximately a year away from having the TJ fiberglass molds finished. Obviously they're not ready yet, but they're on the way..... I hope!

Tim

 

[Jeff Allan]

I would keep the TJ for sure! I've been in a JK and basically, it felt like driving my wife's Liberty. I guess I'm more into the Jeep heritage. CJ's and earlier were basic vehicles. They had no frills, no $15k worth of electronics, and were just awesome off-road vehicles that got adapted for street! That's what I like. To be honest, I was hesitant on the TJ due to the 'full' dash that it has. I'm used to it now though, so it's all perspective I guess, lol. Anyway, fix the TJ yourself, save a mint, and bond even more with it!

On a side note, Shell Valley told me in late 2016 that they were approximately a year away from having the TJ fiberglass molds finished. Obviously they're not ready yet, but they're on the way..... I hope!

Tim

I'm weighing pros and cons. So many of each. I'm not a hardcore off roader like most here, kept my jeeps close to stock. It's my DD and I do light trails and like the jeeps for all the snow we get. the one big thing, I have two kids and the back seat just sucks, no head rest. JK will be a ton safer for them, with the seats/headrest. The thing I don't like is the rear view of JK ain't so hot.

On looks, I always liked the TJ styling, the looks. hell I bought three... Though when I took a JK test drive, a pic of 'em side by side, and everyone seems to pick the JK as the looker.

To me, the JK drove no better/worse than my TJ. My TJR rides pretty smooth. JK was more comfortable..seats, the beefy padded steering wheel, and padded heavy duty console) more elbow room... The doors are really heavy feeling and solid built compared to the light/flimsy TJ doors and it's interior... I mean how, is that worse or like a Liberty? It's better. I have to admit made my TJ feel toyish, I was shocked and a little bummed.

I do worry about if a JK was in rain with top down, but ain't that stuff sealed? Is that really an issue? If there are issues of them getting wet and going bad, then that's bad news.

One thing I did not like, the JK's heater on this particular one sucked. Did not blow strong and hot on max. The TJ will burn my hand in a few seconds. I compared. Lots of JK guys says there's works well. I don't know if it was just that one had something going on.

 

[Jerry Bransford]

If I had a TJ that was too rusty to keep, I'd look in the Craigslist ads in states that don't salt the roads for a TJ that was rust-free. Having worked on JKs, I wouldn't want one myself due to how much harder they are to work on and modify. What really shocked me about JKs is how much more complex they are. Just one example... their head lights are controlled by a databus, not a simple on-off switch like our TJs use.

 

[Jeff Allan]

If I had a TJ that was too rusty to keep, I'd look in the Craigslist ads in states that don't salt the roads for a TJ that was rust-free. Having worked on JKs, I wouldn't want one myself due to how much harder they are to work on and modify. What really shocked me about JKs is how much more complex they are. Just one example... their head lights are controlled by a databus, not a simple on-off switch like our TJs use.

I know, I don't like that about JKs. But the TJ is my DD and kids are 11 and 13. I don't feel comfortable with them riding in the back seat. It's not safe. So that's a huge factor in my decision. I don't do hard off road. But I do run no top a lot, and if it rains I don't want to deal with electric issues. These are the main concerns. My rust is cosmetic at this point, I can keep fixing that. I also have an '06 and the OPDA thing, while it has never been an issue, is in the back of my mind. My rubi runs excellent.

 

[Mike_H]

You have before/after pic? Or is it still like that? If it was just that one spot, it'd be easy, but it's everywhere, (passenger) fender needs replaced/painted. It's really all cosmetic but it's progressing quick and all around in spots on the jeep. There really ain't no real fix as cost a few body shops said it'll just keep popping up, and who knows how soon, I'd just be battling to slow it....or move on to a newer one and then oil/fluid film each winter like I wish I would've known years ago.

Yeah...
I fixed it myself. Here is the patch welded in. I had to do some of the floor as well.

Painted. I didn't spend a ton of time making it pretty. I have JCR Sliders that cover it up, so I just cut it out, welded in new steel, and protected it. This winter, I need to rip the interior out, and get back into the wheel well on that side. I have some rust where the inner wheel well joins the floor. I'll cut that out, and probably do RaptorLiner in the cab and throw some bedrug in there.

 

[Jerry Bransford]

I know, I don't like that about JKs. But the TJ is my DD and kids are 11 and 13. I don't feel comfortable with them riding in the back seat. It's not safe.

They're safer in the back seat of a TJ with its heavy steel frame and heavy steel tub with rollbar than they are in many of today's lightweight unibody cars which the TJ is significantly heavier than. The insurance industry's actuarial tables actually rate the Wrangler TJ as significantly safer than the average car. I actually saw the actuarial webpage that said that, I wish that page was still up on the web.

 

[Artemis]

You are safer in a unibody constructed vehicle. In an accident, the stresses get dispersed thru the entire body, therefore there should be significant increases in survivability. At least this is what I was told from an engineer when I was stationed in Germany when I asked how the tiny smartcars survive any accident on the Autobahn. But of course it would be very difficult to take a unibody off road because of the lack of flex in the frame.

 

[DHunt]

I wonder if there is such a thing as a professional auto buyer? You tell him what you want and he finds and ships it. If rust free TJs are worth it, seems like the service will be available. I only looked at a few TJs when I bought mine. Some were better than others, but none had rust. There are lots of non Rubicon TJs in Southern California in the 10k general price range.

 

[Jerry Bransford]

You are safer in a unibody constructed vehicle.

Not really, that design came about solely to lighten vehicles and improve their MPG. Think of a unibody design being akin to a crackerbox... lightweight and stiff but not strong. Stiff and strong are not the same. The insurance industry's actuarial data backed that up, the TJ's data showed injuries to be less severe in it than in the average car. True, I saw the data first-hand.

 

[astjp2]

Throw in a set of rock sliders and the grocery getter that runs into you will be able to roll the TJ over quick on a side inpact...instead of crumpling the side into where the frame is.

 

[Starrs]

You are safer in a unibody constructed vehicle. In an accident, the stresses get dispersed thru the entire body, therefore there should be significant increases in survivability. At least this is what I was told from an engineer when I was stationed in Germany when I asked how the tiny smartcars survive any accident on the Autobahn. But of course it would be very difficult to take a unibody off road because of the lack of flex in the frame.

Hard to argue with an engineer when that is their specialty. Makes sense to me

 

[Jerry Bransford]

Hard to argue with an engineer when that is their specialty. Makes sense to me

The actuarial data proved that wrong in the TJ's case. Actuarial data being actual accident and injury data compiled by the insurance industry.

In fact, Jeep holds four of the top-ten positions least expensive vehicles to insure. The Wrangler holding onto the #1 least expensive vehicle to insure the last time I looked. That is based on the insurance industry's significantly lower than average damage and injury claim payouts made to Jeep owners.

Insurance companies are not going to give low rates to vehicles that are not safe.

 

[Fouledplugs]

I wonder if there is such a thing as a professional auto buyer? You tell him what you want and he finds and ships it. If rust free TJs are worth it, seems like the service will be available. I only looked at a few TJs when I bought mine. Some were better than others, but none had rust. There are lots of non Rubicon TJs in Southern California in the 10k general price range.

Yes, I will do this on commission for you. I’ll find you whatever you want TJ/LJ wise.

That would be such an awesome and fun job. Talk about job satisfaction.

 

[Fouledplugs]

Hard to argue with an engineer when that is their specialty. Makes sense to me

My money is on the engineer.

 

[Jeff Allan]

They're safer in the back seat of a TJ with its heavy steel frame and heavy steel tub with rollbar than they are in many of today's lightweight unibody cars which the TJ is significantly heavier than. The insurance industry's actuarial tables actually rate the Wrangler TJ as significantly safer than the average car. I actually saw the actuarial webpage that said that, I wish that page was still up on the web.

Huh? A Hit from behind with no head rests? Jk has headrests. Only they do block the already narrow rear window.

What’s nice is they are removable and we can use when we need.

 

[Jerry Bransford]

Huh? A Hit from behind with no head rests? Jk has headrests. Only they do block the already narrow rear window.

This is a TJ forum so that's the model I base my comments on. When the TJ was the current model Wrangler, it did very well in the actuarial data analyses and was rated "safer than average".

 

[TJ2]

The actuarial data proved that wrong in the TJ's case. Actuarial data being actual accident and injury data compiled by the insurance industry.

In fact, Jeep holds four of the top-ten positions least expensive vehicles to insure. The Wrangler holding onto the #1 least expensive vehicle to insure the last time I looked. That is based on the insurance industry's significantly lower than average damage and injury claim payouts made to Jeep owners.

Insurance companies are not going to give low rates to vehicles that are not safe.

I have to comment on engineered unibodies. There are merits on the technology most specially if it is designed to withstand stress due to impact, at certain pre determined (by engineers like me) point of contacts in the frame. However, it is very subjective because they put sensors to detect force of impacts thru testing and simulation of dummies (not actual data from actual accidents). The results will be "beefier at certain spots, like the door side bars, or the window pillar, etc..
Now, the TJ has a very sturdy frame than the unibody, and does not require beefier steel on certain spots. Let's cut into the chase, for the sake of arguments... now try to remove the air bags into the equation. Is it safer because of the sturdy frame? or it's because there are more airbags on unibodies?

 

[TJ2]

My money is on the engineer.

Thanks for the trust and vote of confidence bro.

 

[Jeff Allan]

This is a TJ forum so that's the model I base my comments on. When the TJ was the current model Wrangler, it did very well in the actuarial data analyses and was rated "safer than average".

Ok maybe back in 90’s or something but who cares... look at the seats. Tj is horrible unless in a car seat. Even a fender bender from the rear could really hurt someone’s neck/ spine.

When I called to check on insurance rates my insurance cost goes down buying a new or recent JK. I thought it be a lot more cost for a new vehicle , but they said it’s safer than a 2006. Airbags, head restraints..

 

[fourpointzero]

That's nothing... You can get that fixed pretty easily.

Heres what I dealt with last winter

That’s why I refuse to install metal panels that mount right up against the tub of my TJ. Some type of padding, insulator or gasket helps, but doesn’t completely prevent it.


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