OP
Synthetic rope failure: Does it drop or recoil?
- Thread starter jjvw
- Start date
OP
Most of the rope is still fine. At the end of the day when I clean this up I'll lose about maybe 10 feet.
OP
Here's was the rigging setup...
-10ft nylon strap basketed around a tree.
-Soft shackle
-Safety Thimble
-Dyneema rope
-Warn steel hawse
-Warn xd9000 winch
On the failed pull, there was a side load.
-10ft nylon strap basketed around a tree.
-Soft shackle
-Safety Thimble
-Dyneema rope
-Warn steel hawse
-Warn xd9000 winch
On the failed pull, there was a side load.
I'm with @Squatch. Some recoil from the elasticity in the line, but without much drama.
I'm puzzled by losing only 10' of line, though. Seems like you shouldn't have chafing on the thimble end because the thimble should be on the hawse, not the line (unless the thimble is a new addition). And if you spooled out until there was only 10' on the drum, would that even leave enough wraps on the drum?
The line was spooled out enough that the chafing caused it to part under load at a contact point. That tells us 2 things, the load was low and the recoil while evident, was a low energy event. Probably not much more than about what you can do whipping a 10 foot long piece around by hand. The only thing that would add to the amount of recoil is if the suspension was compressed.
Good opportunity for more questions.
1) Pic of the Warn hawse? What’s the issue with the design? Is it the steel? The form?
2) Would steel cable have broken?
3) Do you mean by side load the object you anchored to was not in front of the Jeep? Is this safe?
4) should a steel hawse only be used with a cable? And aluminum for synthetic?
5) will a cable stand up to rubbing on rocks, trees, et al? Or will there be damage? I saw a number of groves in Moab Slickrock from cable pulls (E.g. Hell’s Gate)
1) Pic of the Warn hawse? What’s the issue with the design? Is it the steel? The form?
2) Would steel cable have broken?
3) Do you mean by side load the object you anchored to was not in front of the Jeep? Is this safe?
4) should a steel hawse only be used with a cable? And aluminum for synthetic?
5) will a cable stand up to rubbing on rocks, trees, et al? Or will there be damage? I saw a number of groves in Moab Slickrock from cable pulls (E.g. Hell’s Gate)
I like the explanation, but it makes me wonder how different a line failure under full load on a straight pull would be.
Line failures due to improper clearances around the hole in the fairlead mount, fairlead design, and other things that can damage the rope happen on side pulls, up, down, and straight ahead pulls. The only difference in any of them is the angle of the line going over the fairlead. There is almost no pull done with a winch where the line is not in contact with the fairlead since that is the function of one. The load and angle are the only two factors that determine how well the rope survives.
I do know that steel cable can fail explosively, resulting in injury or worse. There are many videos of people standing in the line of fire while winching which makes me cringe. I'm not sure how synthetic rope will fail and am waiting to hear. I would imagine it would fray and then part without a whole lot of energy. Two important things to consider. 1) Any angular pulls on cable will reduce the strength. 2) Steel cable has several different classifications depending on use. Steel cable used for rigging or overhead crane use has a safety factor which means the cable will fail at a certain yield point or failure point which can range from 3 to 5 times it's safe working load (SWL). For example, a cable rated for 1 ton (SWL) will fail at a minimum of 5 tons. There is an elastic range where cable will stretch and then return to it's former length once the load is removed (SWL). Operation above this elastic range can get one into the permanent deformation range where the cable will not return to it's former length. This is the danger zone where cable can fail. I don't know if the same factors of safety apply to synthetic rope used on winches for recreational use.
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Warn makes a hawse for steel cable. It is not smooth. It is rough and should only be used with steel cable.
Possibly, not likely. Depends on the load and condition of the line.
There is nothing safe about using a winch. It is a means to an end, a dangerous one, but still necessary. Side loads are not inherently more or less safe than any other pull depending on the circumstance.
No, the design of the hawse determines its suitability. A perfectly smooth steel hawse can be used and a round or improper radiused aluminum should not.
If one pays attention, no winch line should be allowed to be put into a situation where it can be abraded. That is just dumb.
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Given where you were stuck, high centered on a snow drift, I doubt there was much load so the recoil would have been minimal. But if it "snapped" there would be recoil.
I'm more curious why it snapped. Does not appear to be anything sharp to drag over on this pull. And if there was little load the line must have already been "damaged". Which would indicate a maintenance, storage issue or previous damage.
At any rate this is why I use steel cable. Abrasion is obvious on steel. Steel is far more resistant to chafing. Heat & sun have little effect on steel. Rust is more obvious than ultraviolet degradation. And steel is cheap to replace.
I'm more curious why it snapped. Does not appear to be anything sharp to drag over on this pull. And if there was little load the line must have already been "damaged". Which would indicate a maintenance, storage issue or previous damage.
At any rate this is why I use steel cable. Abrasion is obvious on steel. Steel is far more resistant to chafing. Heat & sun have little effect on steel. Rust is more obvious than ultraviolet degradation. And steel is cheap to replace.
That's all great and wonderful. Not one single iota of that info is applicable to self recovery using a winch on a vehicle.
You should be banned from participating in winch discussions.
It was only intended to provide some info. to those unfamiliar with cable and some of the inherent dangers in it's use.
Fair enough. I'm still wondering about a synthetic line failure under full load, since we're guessing this was a lighter load and @jjvw hasn't told us what really happened yet.
I'm guessing synthetic line failure under full load is still pretty uneventful. The synthetic line will be stretched, so there will be some rebound, but the line doesn't weigh that much so the total kinetic energy will still be fairly small. You might not want to be standing next to the line when it fails, but if a shackle failed instead of the line, would there even be enough energy to toss the shackle/thimble very far?
But I will readily admit that I'm guessing since I don't have any experience with this.
He has told us. Side load, loss of 10 feet of line maybe, previous warning about fairlead. That means the load was low.
You're correct on the stored energy and the release thereof. I would not want to be anywhere near a recoiling line with a shackle attached.
MallCrawlOnTons
TJ Enthusiast
all this scientific talk. And still referring to wire rope as “cable”. Dummies.
Watch this and be informed.
Watch this and be informed.
Note they are using a tire as a cable damper. Anyone that watches that and still thinks tossing a cable weight over a winch line somehow makes any difference whatsoever is a fool.