RMS second opinion

[Kaptainkid1]

So I finish replacing the RMS this weekend and right a way the next day it started leaking again. Ugh!
First off taking off the oil pan all the bolts we're very lightly tighten. I was taken back on how little force it took to take them off. It was every single bolt holding the oil pan at the same tightness. It seem strange but I wasn't too concerned since none of the bolts were missing.
Secondly the bottom half of the RMS metal retainer had a buildup of dry crud but no oil drips or trace of oil. I thought that was strange and I should have seen the failure point on these parts. Like oil drip marks.

I figure at 170K it should be done and it doesn't have history of it being changed.

Here is a Picture why I thought it was the RMS.

So I am not sure but the oil drip marks look like its come from the Transmission clutch cover and only traces on the ground. I will let it drip for a few more days and see if it becomes more obvious.

Here is a picture a day after the RMS change. Notice droplet of oil. It seems like it's coming from the clutch cover plate and Tranny side. Eventhough originally it looks like it came from RMS side.

Random picture of RMS.

 

[Jamison C]

A valve cover gasket leak can often make it look like an RMS leak. It’s always worse on the back of the block. What’s the condition of yours?

 

[Kaptainkid1]

A valve cover gasket leak can often make it look like an RMS leak. It’s always worse on the back of the block. What’s the condition of yours?

The valve cover gasket is my next job but it appears to more dry then oily. I put my hands and don't really feel any oil.

 

[cpwolf]

Oil leaks are funny that way. They present all over sometimes. I’m assuming the new droplet isn’t just from sitting still, you drove it after the RMS change?
If you’re valve cover is old and you want to change it, by all means do. If you’re chasing a leak, I’d personally degrease it’s all very well, then put dye and check.

Also, if you had a leak for a long while, it could be blown all over. It will take some time for it to work it’s way out of every crack, especially if you didn’t fully clean it all.

Oil type as well, this seems to bring out everyone that has successfully run Mobil1 synthetic, but I’m switching my JK to Mobil Super High Mileage Conventional this week to see if it quiets down a small drip before I start tearing things apart too Much. It’s supposed to have additives that are good for seals. Considering our TJs seem prone to this, an oil that helps reduce seal and gasket failure is worth a shot.

 

[Apparition]

What oil are you using?

 

[afusco1222]

To answer your concern about the oil pan bolts, I think the max torque on them should be around 11 ft-lbs so they are not tight at all.

 

[jeepguy03]

I had this happen. Replaced the rear main seal and it leaked the next day. Turns out the oil pan gasket was folded over in the rear since it is a bit tricky to get up there and keep the gasket straight. I would check this first. I've done a few 4.0L RMS and if they leak afterward, it's almost always the stupid pan gasket in the rear not sitting right.

 

[Kaptainkid1]

What oil are you using?

High Mileage Conventional.
I switched from full synthetic and the oil leak dryed up for a couple months and came back.

 

[Kaptainkid1]

I had this happen. Replaced the rear main seal and it leaked the next day. Turns out the oil pan gasket was folded over in the rear since it is a bit tricky to get up there and keep the gasket straight. I would check this first. I've done a few 4.0L RMS and if they leak afterward, it's almost always the stupid pan gasket in the rear not sitting right.

I think the leak is coming from curve section of the oil pan. I used high Temp RTV seal in this area for that reason I only applied the RTV on the Pan side to the Gasket I also used the blue guide tabs that came with the gasket kit. I never saw the gasket get crimped or shifted outlinement when adding the bolts.
The last photo shows the retaining clip and this is where I see the leak is now. I will drop the Pan again and apply RTV seal on both sides of the gasket. Maybe an light covering RTV will do the job. I'm not a fan using RTV since it will glue the pan to the engine block.

 

[Kaptainkid1]

Final thoughts and lesson learned:
I suspect at the end of changing RMS, oil pan gasket and valve cover gasket. The fix could have just been the Valve Cover gasket only.

Here is the method I would suggest for troubleshooting oil leaks by the RMS.

Clean the oil from the oil pan and surrounding areas. Try to follow the oil leaks and rule out the valve cover and oil pan gasket.
1. Valve cover oil leak: put hand on backside of valve cover and firewall. Feel for oil drips. Very little oil is a clear sign of possible oil leak. I thought the small amount of oil if any from the valve cover gasket couldn't be the culprit . I was wrong and it was the problem. Valve cover gasket can get old and bolts get loose. Tighten valve cover bolts to 11lbs of torque. Clean areas and see if problem returns. If oil leaks are found around the valve cover gasket then I would replace it with Fel Pro or OEM part.
My issue was the valve cover and engine block was dry but oil drips were very little on the back side of engine block and couldn't be seen only can be detected by feel or paper dab.

2nd. Oil Pan gasket leak: clean the areas with simple green or degreaser and tighten all lower pan gasket bolts to 11lbs. Once clean and recheck to see if oil drips return. If valve cover gasket is not leaking oil forsure and the oil drips come back by the rear part of the oil pan. The oil pan gasket can be the problem. I would replace the oil pan gasket and the RMS while the bottom end is open even if you don't suspect RMS is leaking. It's only a $45 dollar in part and depending on the age of the engine or miles on the block it's a good Preventative maintenance if the engine block has over 100k or over 5 years old. The labor and time to pull the exhaust and oil pan it's just another 1 hour of work to put in a new rear main. Will need to buy $15 anaerobic RTV Seal and $30 RMS.

My first mistake was not finding information on these steps to rule out common problems of a suspected RMS Oil leak. Looking back tightening all my bolts and only changing the Valve cover gasket I could have saved a lot money and time.

Hopefully these steps can help troubleshoot and save you time and money on not replacing a RMS.
My 2002 Jeep 4.0l 170k RMS seal wasn't leaking and could only be determined once the oil pan was dropped but at that point your 80% of job labor done for a RMS and age of vehicle had no records of the RMS being replaced and could have been the original RMS from the factory. It's a no brainer to just do the Job and forget about it until the next leak.

 

[williambmac]

While you're at it, seal the upper section of the bellhousing. If you run your hand down behind the cylinder head you will feel an opening between the block and the bellhousing at the 12 o'clock position. Clean the area with brake clean and run a bead of RTV to seal it off.
This prevents crud from running down the back of the block and getting between the flywheel and the RMS which can cause the seal to start leaking.
Chrysler has a TSB for this.