School me on LSD vs lockers

[D M]

I understand the difference between the two, just need some other voices on what to do. Currently running 33s, 3.73s 5spd, it sucks, planning to regear to 5.13 for when I jump to 35s. I have a couple ideas while the carriers out-
-Trutracs f/r
-Elocker rear, trutrac or powertrax no-slip front
-Trutrac rear or detroit rear, elocker or no slip up front

I like rock crawling, only been down to JV once but I plan to go alot more when my rig is better suited for the terrain, but I also DD and enjoy the snow/mud trails. Can anyone give some good insight? Thanks

 

[never monday]

Is budget a concern?
Elocker front and rear.

 

[D M]

Is budget a concern?
Elocker front and rear.

budgeting is somewhat of a concern, that is the only reason I did not consider that choice, I am also a little worried of locking the 30 due to how weak the gears are but that seems to not be a concern on here. I do plan on swapping in a HP dana 30 for the driveshaft clearance, and the gears are reverse cut so it is a little stronger too. I mainly focused on the Truetrac LSDs because I would benefit on the dirt and snow trails without having the harshness of a lunchbox, and being able to enjoy it on the street without having to turn on and off

 

[never monday]

Limited slip is the same as limited grip. Yeah it’s a nice added bonus on the street, in the rear only, But if you need lockers, you need lockers.
I blew an OX apart in my LP30 on 35’s with cromos. The gears actually survived while the case failed. That just say’s anything is possible regarding failures.
In a perfect world I’d go Detroit front, selectable rear, Atlas. For tight trails and technical crawling you need to keep the rear selectable to allow the rig to turn since you won’t have rear steer.

 

[D M]

I honestly have been thinking the Elocker for the Dana 44 rear, and the powertrax no-slip in the 30 would be a good combo like you mentioned above, if im not mistaken @JMT runs that combo or similar. I would like others who have ran any sort of combo for info. Ive always got an open mind

 

[never monday]

I’m lunchbox/LSD 44, it’s a good compromise and cheap combo. I have found it lacking in deep (2’+) snow so far. Eventually when I find an HP housing it’ll get all my gut’s and the next pot full of cash will go to an elocker out back.
Your plan will be good for awhile on 35’s and heavy technical crawling. IMHO, The weak point will be the lunchbox and stock carrier. I’d plan to upgrade them at some point.

 

[JMT]

I honestly have been thinking the Elocker for the Dana 44 rear, and the powertrax no-slip in the 30 would be a good combo like you mentioned above, if im not mistaken @JMT runs that combo or similar. I would like others who have ran any sort of combo for info. Ive always got an open mind

Yes, that’s my setup. I built it in TX, then moved to WA. I assumed I would switch out the Powertrax due to snow, but after 2 winters, there’s no reason to change anything. If my turning radius is small I might turn off the rear. lockers. If I was wheelin JV I’d definitely have lockers. The occasional snow wouldn’t impact my decision.

 

[D M]

Yes, that’s my setup. I built it in TX, then moved to WA. I assumed I would switch out the Powertrax due to snow, but after 2 winters, there’s no reason to change anything. If my turning radius is small I might turn off the rear. lockers. If I was wheelin JV I’d definitely have lockers. The occasional snow wouldn’t impact my decision.

Glad to hear. Thats why I wanted this forums opinions because ive heard the good olb"you dont need lockers, just limited slip and some brake technique" and yet 99% of the people who I meet say that have never done any serious off roading. How does the powertrax like the snow?

 

[JMT]

Glad to hear. Thats why I wanted this forums opinions because ive heard the good olb"you dont need lockers, just limited slip and some brake technique" and yet 99% of the people who I meet say that have never done any serious off roading. How does the powertrax like the snow?

Lots of people say no to a lunchbox locker and snow. It works fine for me. There may be a learning curve. If I have trouble steering I just unlock the rear. David Kishpaugh says anything less than 37’s should have a lunchbox up front because it’s easier on front end steering components.

 

[Goatman]

Rocks need lockers. Limited slips are better for daily drivers or when driving in winter conditions on road. They are only good if both tires of the axle are on the ground. If you want to be able to hit the rocks and still drive home then selectable lockers are the very best choice.

 

[Jerry Bransford]

I understand the difference between the two, just need some other voices on what to do. Currently running 33s, 3.73s 5spd, it sucks, planning to regear to 5.13 for when I jump to 35s. I have a couple ideas while the carriers out-
-Trutracs f/r
-Elocker rear, trutrac or powertrax no-slip front
-Trutrac rear or detroit rear, elocker or no slip up front

I like rock crawling, only been down to JV once but I plan to go alot more when my rig is better suited for the terrain, but I also DD and enjoy the snow/mud trails. Can anyone give some good insight? Thanks

Don't even consider a Truetrac for rock crawling, a Truetrac is only a limited slip differential which is USELESS for rock crawling. For that you want a real locker. I learned that 20 years ago when I got into rock crawling with front and rear Truetracs where I found that they weren't helping at all. I swapped them both out for lockers and never looked back.

Here are two articles I wrote years ago that will help you understand the differences between lockers and LSDs.

https://wranglertjforum.com/threads/why-do-i-need-a-locker-i-thought-i-had-four-wheel-drive.38643/
https://wranglertjforum.com/threads/how-is-torque-delivered-to-the-wheels-on-a-4x4.1738/

 

[D M]

Don't even consider a Truetrac for rock crawling, a Truetrac is only a limited slip differential which is USELESS for rock crawling. For that you want a real locker. I learned that 20 years ago when I got into rock crawling with front and rear Truetracs where I found that they weren't helping at all. I swapped them both out for lockers and never looked back.

Here are two articles I wrote years ago that will help you understand the differences between lockers and LSDs.

https://wranglertjforum.com/threads/why-do-i-need-a-locker-i-thought-i-had-four-wheel-drive.38643/
https://wranglertjforum.com/threads/how-is-torque-delivered-to-the-wheels-on-a-4x4.1738/

Thanks for those jerry, lots of good info. Current plan is a rear elocker, and a powertrax no-slip in a HPd30 front. Am a little nervous about the snow and the lunchbox, but im gonna bite the bullet because its better than a trutrac/LSD for my wheeling

 

[Jerry Bransford]

Thanks for those jerry, lots of good info. Current plan is a rear elocker, and a powertrax no-slip in a HPd30 front. Am a little nervous about the snow and the lunchbox, but im gonna bite the bullet because its better than a trutrac/LSD for my wheeling

I love that combination but how much snow (ice too?) are you talking about? Snow and ice on the trail? Icy streets? Snow-covered streets? Front lunchbox lockers are not good when you're in 4x4 on a snow-covered or ice covered surface.

 

[D M]

I love that combination but how much snow (ice too?) are you talking about? Snow and ice on the trail? Icy streets? Snow-covered streets? Front lunchbox lockers are not good when you're in 4x4 on a snow-covered or ice covered surface.

Not sure on amount, id go snow wheeling when I can and see tahoe snow/ice maybe twice a year

 

[never monday]

I love that combination but how much snow (ice too?) are you talking about? Snow and ice on the trail? Icy streets? Snow-covered streets? Front lunchbox lockers are not good when you're in 4x4 on a snow-covered or ice covered surface.

Please explain why
My lunchbox has been a nonissue in snow. See my avatar. Ice is another story, only studs work on ice

 

[D M]

Please explain why
My lunchbox has been a nonissue in snow. See my avatar. Ice is another story, only studs work on ice

If im not mistaken, lunchboxes are always locked until you make a turn, but you need traction throughout the turn to unlock, so I think it would be a safety hazard making turns in the low traction ?

 

[jjvw]

I had the rear factory Rubicon LSD on my daily driver for many years until it broke last year. One winter with an ARB and I can't say I notice the loss of the LSD in any way that matters.

 

[D M]

I had the rear factory Rubicon LSD on my daily driver for many years until it broke last year. One winter with an ARB and I can't say I notice the loss of the LSD in any way that matters.

That matters a lot to me actually for my overall driving/wheeling and im glad you said that. Thank you

 

[Jerry Bransford]

Please explain why
My lunchbox has been a nonissue in snow. See my avatar. Ice is another story, only studs work on ice

Being 'in' snow is different than being on a trail or street with just a thin coating of snow or ice on a hard surface that makes the underlying surface slick enough that the lunchbox locker doesn't have enough traction to help it to unlock through turns. Automatic lockers, lunchbox or full-carrier it doesn't matter, have trouble on snow or ice covered surfaces. I did some icy trails years ago and every guy with an automatic locker was sliding everywhere and mostly down toward the low-side on off-camber trails. They were having a hell of a time... which is why many call automatic lockers "low-side finders".

 

[never monday]

Being 'in' snow is different than being on a trail or street with just a thin coating of snow or ice on a hard surface that makes the underlying surface slick enough that the lunchbox locker doesn't have enough traction to help it to unlock through turns. Automatic lockers, lunchbox or full-carrier it doesn't matter, have trouble on snow or ice covered surfaces. I did some icy trails years ago and every guy with an automatic locker was sliding everywhere and mostly down toward the low-side on off-camber trails. They were having a hell of a time... which is why many call automatic lockers "low-side finders".

Thats gravity at work
In limited grip it doesn’t matter if the lunchbox opens. The inside tire will just slip to maintain speed with the outside tire. It takes a bit different driving style i’ve found. If you stay on the gas and drive it like a fwd. you’ll find the truck pulls you thru the turn.