Ring, pinion, and carrier swap

[Tytanium94]

out of the interest of experience, I have a stock dana 30 and 35 with 3.07 gears from a tj laying around, and i found a 2002 liberty with Dana 30 and Dana 35 with 3.73 gearing and Trac Lok. I know swapping a used ring and pinion alone are a PIA, but if i take the ring and carrier with Trac lock out as a set(from the liberty) , will it still be just as hard to place in another axle(the spare tj Dana 30/35 in my garage)? or is the hardened ring the difficult part getting in and out of the diff.

@Matt789 just posted a similar question about swapping out axles vs gear set in terms of which is easier, I'm more asking what's a better learning option for gear setup

This is more of a "can i do it?" project to get some practice before i install my own gearing and locker on my dana 30/44 in my vehicle, but is it close enough to compare or even worth it? or if bought new 4.10 gear set and sold the axles with the new gearing would i be able to break even? hopefully this is clear enough, forgive me for my ignorance

Either way I want to perform the swap on my vehicle eventually, so a shop is a no go unless i managed to royally F it up, as I thoroughly enjoying learning about and understanding my jeep and how it all works together. Plus saving money is always nice for the pricey lockers

just for extra info, the eventual plan is to regear my Dana 30/44 to 4.56 with arb front and back. After some practice i was going to do it by a video



and also the factory service manual by its side with forum re-gear guide pulled up as well
https://wranglertjforum.com/threads/how-to-install-gears-in-your-tj.2651/
thanks!

 

[CharlesHS]

While doing the swap of gears from the Liberty to the TJ differential sounds like it shouldn't be difficult; there is more to the swap than just removing and replacing the parts.
Reusing bearings is not advisable, the crush washers (if installed) will need to be replaced, the amount of shims (if installed) will be different, you will need to test for gear mesh and pinion depth. Even with this... it would be advisable to start with new parts instead of installing used parts.
As for the installation of the new 4.56 gears in your Dana 30/Dana 44; you should at the very least have someone that is EXPERIENCED in the installation of new ring and pinions and the process involved with setup otherwise you will be wasting your money and the gears will end up with premature wear evidenced by lots of silvery particulate in the gear lube.

 

[Rec_Rider]

I am all for learning new skills. For most, re-gearing is a daunting task that's best left for experts however I learned how to do it on my own. The first time you go through the process it takes a lot of trial and error and you end of pulling the carrier up to a dozen times. It's a PITA until you get it right. The hardest part is having the right tools and setup parts. Destroying shims or bearings is not fun and can be costly. You also can't be in a hurry.

After you've gained that knowledge you can put it to work for you. I've re-geared several axles since my first and all have been successful. Also look at it this way, the money you are saving on labor should be put to purchasing the correct tools and parts to give you the best possible outcome. You're gaining knowledge and experience over saving a bunch of money.

 

[Tytanium94]

While doing the swap of gears from the Liberty to the TJ differential sounds like it shouldn't be difficult; there is more to the swap than just removing and replacing the parts.
Reusing bearings is not advisable, the crush washers (if installed) will need to be replaced, the amount of shims (if installed) will be different, you will need to test for gear mesh and pinion depth. Even with this... it would be advisable to start with new parts instead of installing used parts.
As for the installation of the new 4.56 gears in your Dana 30/Dana 44; you should at the very least have someone that is EXPERIENCED in the installation of new ring and pinions and the process involved with setup otherwise you will be wasting your money and the gears will end up with premature wear evidenced by lots of silvery particulate in the gear lube.

I figured it'd still be difficult, just trying to save a dime where i can while practicing setting gears up. i will be using a rebuild kit to replace all the bearings, shims and washers. thanks for the advice on the actual re-gear for the rig as well, I'll be on the look out for someone who can help me!

 

[SvtLdr]

I don't see anything wrong with giving it a try. Double check the ring and pinion are good. Take a backlash measurement before you pull the parts from the Liberty. Also run a gear pattern and take photos. Then swap the parts over and take a look at the same things in the TJ housing. You might just luck out but be prepared to change shims just in case. If this is for "educational purposes" only then there's no need to replace the bearings. If you intend to drive the TJ then I'd go with new bearings.

And there's nothing wrong with an amateur setting up new gears. I learned on a new set and many others have as well. Just be aware of what's at stake. Stay patient and don't compromise.

 

[pagrey]

Most people learning to setup gears screw up the first few times if they don't have a mentor over their shoulder. Even experienced mechanics don't get it right sometimes. If you want to learn the practice go for it, plan on spending 2-5X the cost of having a shop do the work for you to get it right. When @SvtLdr says be aware of what's at stake, I think he means new gears one or two times if you mess up.

 

[SvtLdr]

Most people learning to setup gears screw up the first few times if they don't have a mentor over their shoulder. Even experienced mechanics don't get it right sometimes. If you want to learn the practice go for it, plan on spending 2-5X the cost of having a shop do the work for you to get it right. When @SvtLdr says be aware of what's at stake, I think he means new gears one or two times if you mess up.

Your assessment is quite different from my experience. I learned to set up gears with 2 of my buddies. We split the cost of the specialty tools 3 ways. Each of us re-geared both axles, so 6 gear setups in about 3 months. All of us were complete noobs on differentials. Not a single trashed ring and pinion, that was almost 3 years ago, still running strong. We even bounced around on axle type, Dana 30, Dana 35, Dana 44. Different gear ratios, different locker types from the stock Rubi air locker, spartan locker, and Eaton E-lockers. Maybe we got lucky but I doubt it.

 

[Tytanium94]

Your assessment is quite different from my experience. I learned to set up gears with 2 of my buddies. We split the cost of the specialty tools 3 ways. Each of us re-geared both axles, so 6 gear setups in about 3 months. All of us were complete noobs on differentials. Not a single trashed ring and pinion, that was almost 3 years ago, still running strong. We even bounced around on axle type, Dana 30, Dana 35, Dana 44. Different gear ratios, different locker types from the stock Rubi air locker, spartan locker, and Eaton E-lockers. Maybe we got lucky but I doubt it.

That's pretty encouraging honestly! My buddy is going through his bachelors in automotive tech and is going to help and learn with me, and his professors (retired toyota and ford mechanics) are happy to help us through it as well, so at the very least, they'll check our work before we throw them in a jeep!

and again, this project can take all fall and winter if it has to, I'm in no rush to get it wrong, and hopefully I can do it with a few other friends as well for even more practice before doing the ARB install

 

[Shwiftypickle]

Get a good tutorial, learn how to read the machinists numbers and set em up. Get a book or paper with specs. I learned from a guy that kinda knew how, then refined my skills. Havent blown up a set yet. Currently doing my brothers tj. Probrably my 30 something set. Very rewarding skill set imo.

 

[rasband]

Good choice of a video, that’s my Jeep in @hosejockey61 ‘s shop!

It’s a cool skill to learn, and less difficult than I expected. It is, however, tedious! There’s a lot of in and out testing playing with both the pinion depth and lateral shims. There’s also a bit of experience in how the pinion depth and lateral shimming play with each other.

I don’t know a ton on this job beyond conversing with Mike while mostly watching, but I would plan to have plenty of shims around (my revolution kit didn’t have enough that were in useful sizes), make a set of “setup bearings”, and as is covered in the video have a setup pinion nut (make one from your old one).

I’d probably try it on my own rig next time, not to say Mike did anything wrong (because he didn’t) but it’s just a useful skill that would be great to pay forward. And I would only be mad at me for the vibes or whatever other issue I caused!

I don’t agree with the comments above that it’ll cost you more to learn (at least financially). If you quantify your time that way, sure, but that assumes a bit about time and if it was diverted elsewhere it would be compensated as such.

The specialized tools are: backlash, micrometer, and inlb torque wrench. I think the rest are ones I’d usually have anyway.

 

[NashvilleTJ]

The specialized tools are: backlash, micrometer, and inlb torque wrench. I think the rest are ones I’d usually have anyway.

I would add that if you are doing an ARB locker, you also need a case spreader to do it properly. It also makes it way easier for anything other than a 14 bolt or a 9”.

 

[Apparition]

I would add that if you are doing an ARB locker, you also need a case spreader to do it properly. It also makes it way easier for anything other than a 14 bolt or a 9”.

I would also add that having one of these makes things much easier too

https://www.randysworldwide.com/sho...sa4sthu8BE3wdDd81HlHKyC2S88qeQZRoCcpEQAvD_BwE

 

[SvtLdr]

I would add that if you are doing an ARB locker, you also need a case spreader to do it properly. It also makes it way easier for anything other than a 14 bolt or a 9”.

I had a case spreader on my shopping list when we were buying tools. I didn't buy one initially because of the price tag. I even considered plans for making my own if it came down to it. I really thought we'd end up needing one and was surprised in the end when we didn't. As mentioned previously, we worked on 3 different styles of lockers but never installed an ARB. I wonder if those are inherently different in some way?

If you're working on an axle that's been removed from the Jeep then you can get gravity to help you out by pointing the pinion straight down. I found that moving the axle to a set of jack stands on the shop floor was the way to go when installing/ removing the carrier a dozen times. If you're installing the gears in a axle that's still hung under the vehicle then I can see the added benefit for having a case spreader on hand. In this instance, gravity is not your friend.

 

[Apparition]

I had a case spreader on my shopping list when we were buying tools. I didn't buy one initially because of the price tag. I even considered plans for making my own if it came down to it. I really thought we'd end up needing one and was surprised in the end when we didn't. As mentioned previously, we worked on 3 different styles of lockers but never installed an ARB. I wonder if those are inherently different in some way?

If you're working on an axle that's been removed from the Jeep then you can get gravity to help you out by pointing the pinion straight down. I found that moving the axle to a set of jack stands on the shop floor was the way to go when installing/ removing the carrier a dozen times. If you're installing the gears in a axle that's still hung under the vehicle then I can see the added benefit for having a case spreader on hand. In this instance, gravity is not your friend.

Case spreader helps for not messing up the seals in the locker.

 

[SvtLdr]

I would also add that having one of these makes things much easier too

View attachment 270371

https://www.randysworldwide.com/sho...sa4sthu8BE3wdDd81HlHKyC2S88qeQZRoCcpEQAvD_BwE

I remember East Coast Gear having a rental program for this. That might be worth a look too. Or you can just make a couple more set-up bearings for the carrier. That's the route I took.

 

[Apparition]

I remember East Coast Gear having a rental program for this. That might be worth a look too. Or you can just make a couple more set-up bearings for the carrier. That's the route I took.

There are more affordable copies that work just as well.

 

[pc1p]

I had a case spreader on my shopping list when we were buying tools. I didn't buy one initially because of the price tag. I even considered plans for making my own if it came down to it. I really thought we'd end up needing one and was surprised in the end when we didn't. As mentioned previously, we worked on 3 different styles of lockers but never installed an ARB. I wonder if those are inherently different in some way?

If you're working on an axle that's been removed from the Jeep then you can get gravity to help you out by pointing the pinion straight down. I found that moving the axle to a set of jack stands on the shop floor was the way to go when installing/ removing the carrier a dozen times. If you're installing the gears in a axle that's still hung under the vehicle then I can see the added benefit for having a case spreader on hand. In this instance, gravity is not your friend.

Having spent the early part of my life using wood blocks and sledge hammers to get properly preloaded carriers into place (final stack + 0.015" per Dana requirements), I decided when I bought my e-lockers years ago that I wanted to do it "by the book".

I got my spreader off eBay - similar to this one: https://www.ebay.com/itm/2539677991...d=link&campid=5337789113&toolid=20001&mkevt=1

It works fantastic and makes setting carriers in place remarkably easier and as @NashvilleTJ pointed out, it's pivotal for proper ARB installation.

A photo of the one I actually bought (but eBay tells me he is no longer an active seller)...

 

[NashvilleTJ]

I had a case spreader on my shopping list when we were buying tools. I didn't buy one initially because of the price tag. I even considered plans for making my own if it came down to it. I really thought we'd end up needing one and was surprised in the end when we didn't. As mentioned previously, we worked on 3 different styles of lockers but never installed an ARB. I wonder if those are inherently different in some way?

…

If I recall correctly, ARB recommends a 15 thou preload on the case bearings to get a proper seal. That’s not possible without a spreader…

..unless you are @Squatch - who does it with his bare hands.

 

[Apparition]

If I recall correctly, ARB recommends a 15 thou preload on the case bearings to get a proper seal. That’s not possible without a spreader…

..unless you are @Squatch - who does it with his bare hands.

@Squatch loves his bare hands... so I've heard

 

[SvtLdr]

...we worked on 3 different styles of lockers but never installed an ARB. I wonder if those are inherently different in some way?

Case spreader helps for not messing up the seals in the locker.

If I recall correctly, ARB recommends a 15 thou preload on the case bearings to get a proper seal. That’s not possible without a spreader…

Learn something new every day. Thanks guys!