Another alignment issue

John Middleton

John Middleton

TJ Enthusiast
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Joined
Dec 13, 2017
Messages
145
Location
Missouri, United States
My new (to me) 06 LJR w/80K miles on it. I just installed a Metalcloak 3.5 shortarm w/ adjustable links & Currectlink steering. Ball joints looked solid.
So, after alignment by experienced 4x4 shop, Jeep
pulling to right. Alignment guy said I need adjustable ball joint to correct camber. I contacted MC & Wil thought I could change caster to 5-6* and toe to 1/8”. He also said they never have to put adjustable ball joints in with these lifts.
i don’t mind changing out but thought I’d ask the group. Also, I can’t find a Spicer part # for those. What’s everyone use!

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IMG_9289.jpeg
 
John Middleton said:
My new (to me) 06 LJR w/80K miles on it. I just installed a Metalcloak 3.5 shortarm w/ adjustable links & Currectlink steering. Ball joints looked solid.
So, after alignment by experienced 4x4 shop, Jeep
pulling to right. Alignment guy said I need adjustable ball joint to correct camber. I contacted MC & Wil thought I could change caster to 5-6* and toe to 1/8”. He also said they never have to put adjustable ball joints in with these lifts.
i don’t mind changing out but thought I’d ask the group. Also, I can’t find a Spicer part # for those. What’s everyone use!

View attachment 485991

View attachment 485992
Click to expand...

Forget the ball joint idea.

What’s your caster now? Increase your caster to >5 and toe in 1/8” using a 24” bar centered on your hub.

Is your steering damper sitting in the middle of its travel at neutral steering position?
 
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per my alignment sheet: caster @ 7.6/7.8*. Steering damper has not been attached as I just installed currectlynk & would have to be disconnected during alignment. What is the "24" bar centered on hub" referencing?
I will be taking jeep back to alignment shop next week but trying to get a handle on what to change.
 
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John Middleton said:
per my alignment sheet: caster @ 7.6/7.8*. Steering damper has not been attached as I just installed currectlynk & would have to be disconnected during alignment. What is the "24" bar centered on hub" referencing?
I will be taking jeep back to alignment shop next week but trying to get a handle on what to change.
Click to expand...

Hey John,

Sorry i didn’t look at the caster on your sheet. Duh!

That’s a lot of caster. Stock configuration from the factory is 7*. As the tire gets larger you can get away with less caster. So, for example, a 35” tire with 5* caster is considered acceptable. I’m not sure you want to change anything here, but I don’t know how that much caster will affect handling.

My reference to the steering damper was applicable only if it was connected when your rig was pulling to the right. At this point I’d ignore this idea.

As far as your Control arms, are they binding? Usually caster on left vs right differs by about 0.4* (deliberately set up that way from factory to compensate for road crown), and yours only differs by 0.2*. That would mean one of your upper arms needs to be unbolted at the axle bracket. Remove the bolt. The axle will probably move so the holes don’t align. Then adjust your CA to match the location of the hole. Put the bolt back in and tighten to proper torque. Now your arms won’t be in a bind. This might fix your pull to the right.

The reference to a 24” bar is to the alignment process. You are taking a measurement of the toe by putting a tape measure across the distance from the hub face to the hub face. I use a bar that is 24” long. The center of the bar is attached to the hub so that 12” is in front of the hub and 12” is behind the hub. Then I get the tape measure out and measure across the front and the rear. Adjust so that the front measurement is 1/8” smaller than the rear measurement (E.g. front 63 1/8” and rear 63 1/4”). That will ensure that you are within FSM specs.
 
P.s. I see that the camber is off on the front left tire, but I’ve never seen anyone on here need an adjustable ball joint to fix that. The camber is not adjustable on a TJ (apart from some odd ball joint (pun intended)). I’d question that.
 
. All good points. My control arms are double adjustable meaning I don't have to disconnect to adjust. Got under the Jeep (parked flat) and measured my control arms side to side. Rear lowers were spot on but uppers different in length. The front lowers showed a 5/8" difference and front upper control arms were 5/16" different in length. Also, track bar showed 3/8" off center on front axle side to side. I'm debating evening up the control arm lengths before a realignment but not sure if this is the right way to go.
The Jeep actually drove pretty well after lift Install using MC suggestion on initial settings. I installed each set of links adjusted evenly to match. But when I changed to Currectlynk steering setup, it was toed out pretty bad.
 
John Middleton said:
. All good points. My control arms are double adjustable meaning I don't have to disconnect to adjust. Got under the Jeep (parked flat) and measured my control arms side to side. Rear lowers were spot on but uppers different in length. The front lowers showed a 5/8" difference and front upper control arms were 5/16" different in length. Also, track bar showed 3/8" off center on front axle side to side. I'm debating evening up the control arm lengths before a realignment but not sure if this is the right way to go.
The Jeep actually drove pretty well after lift Install using MC suggestion on initial settings. I installed each set of links adjusted evenly to match. But when I changed to Currectlynk steering setup, it was toed out pretty bad.
Click to expand...

Trying to get the upper arms the same length isn’t what you’re trying to do. You’re trying to keep them from binding. By that I mean the bolt at the axle end should not be under pressure holding the axle in place. As I explained earlier…

“As far as your Control arms, are they binding? Usually caster on left vs right differs by about 0.4* (deliberately set up that way from factory to compensate for road crown), and yours only differs by 0.2*. That would mean one of your upper arms needs to be unbolted at the axle bracket. Remove the bolt. The axle will probably move so the holes don’t align. Then adjust your CA to match the location of the hole. Put the bolt back in and tighten to proper torque. Now your arms won’t be in a bind. This might fix your pull to the right.”
 
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JMT said:
That would mean one of your upper arms needs to be unbolted at the axle bracket. Remove the bolt. The axle will probably move so the holes don’t align. Then adjust your CA to match the location of the hole. Put the bolt back in and tighten to proper torque. Now your arms won’t be in a bind. This might fix your pull to the right.”
Click to expand...

Ill try that. Should I adjust my track bar (wont take more than a turn or two) to fine tune axle center as well?
 
That many camber issues is very, very rare- I’d suspect worn ball joints-

The caster numbers are in the Corvette range- nice if they stay but that is almost too good.

I’d love to get under this one.

Need to loosen one upper arm, jostle the jeep a few times and adjust it to go on with no strap or manipulating the axle and report back.
 
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John Middleton said:
Ill try that. Should I adjust my track bar (wont take more than a turn or two) to fine tune axle center as well?
Click to expand...

The axles left/right position based on TB adjustment won’t cause any handling issues, but centering it is never a bad idea.
 
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i’m running the same metalcloak 3.5 lift with 33’s and my jeep was very squirrely after shop installed it. a quick diy alignment fixed it to where it drives straight. i’d recheck everything front and rear suspension wise including the alignment.
 
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AndyG said:
That many camber issues is very, very rare- I’d suspect worn ball joints-

The caster numbers are in the Corvette range- nice if they stay but that is almost too good.

I’d love to get under this one.

Need to loosen one upper arm, jostle the jeep a few times and adjust it to go on with no strap or manipulating the axle and report back.
Click to expand...

Since the camber actually changed with basically no other adjustments made I would agree with possible bad ball joints or an issue with the alignment equipment/tech.
 
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Blackjack said:
Since the camber actually changed with basically no other adjustments made I would agree with possible bad ball joints or an issue with the alignment equipment/tech.
Click to expand...

Andy, the printout represents the second time on the alignment machine after a test drive. Alignment readings did change from a spin around the block. Ill post back a followup. I had a set of Spicer ball joints when I went in for the alignment but returned them as not needed. May need to reorder. However, if the alighnment guy is telling me I need adjustable to straighten things out, still unsure which way to go.
 
John Middleton said:
Andy, the printout represents the second time on the alignment machine after a test drive. Alignment readings did change from a spin around the block. Ill post back a followup. I had a set of Spicer ball joints when I went in for the alignment but returned them as not needed. May need to reorder. However, if the alighnment guy is telling me I need adjustable to straighten things out, still unsure which way to go.
Click to expand...

Get the ball joints and find another alignment shop.
 
John Middleton said:
Andy, the printout represents the second time on the alignment machine after a test drive. Alignment readings did change from a spin around the block. Ill post back a followup. I had a set of Spicer ball joints when I went in for the alignment but returned them as not needed. May need to reorder. However, if the alighnment guy is telling me I need adjustable to straighten things out, still unsure which way to go.
Click to expand...

I would avoid adjustable ball joints at all cost. Unless you are having tire wear issues I would not panic over the small amount out of spec you camber is as long as the ball joints do not have excessive wear. Get your caster adjusted to 5ish degrees, toe at 1/8" in and see how it drives.
 
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Here’s what I would do if that were my situation-

Ball joints would be at the bottom of the list. Other than making sure they are torqued-Unless it has been played in really hard with 35s you don’t have the mileage to have a lot of failure, And I say that from a typical standpoint- not a guarantee

I would raise the tires and carefully check the unit bearings for play

Make sure the stabilizer does not have a gas charge and if it does it just takes a second with the Schrader to bleed it.

I would get under the jeep and make sure the axles are square to the skid plate and tune as needed

I would make sure they are both centered

Get the stabilizer on

I would set the toe myself

I would make sure the caster is in the realm of 5 1/2 to 6° with one upper control arm and let the other one be adjusted to fall in place. I like passenger side to be dominant.

Make sure the tire pressure is perfectly even and I would have it about 28 psi.

Then I would drive the Jeep and see how it does

I would barely raise the jeep one front tire at a time and put a long strong rod/lever under the tire and see if you can get play from the ball joints- And let that be your grand finale if you do-

I would also get the Johnny joints that mount in the front axle and probably change the right front upper control arm mount for more strength-

I can appreciate that they understand what an offset ball joint can do but the odds of really needing it are really slim. And the odds of it going in right slimmer.

The jeep in the picture belongs to me and it had 47,000 miles and you could not hold it on the road-

It has a full four-inch savvy lift and everything is well done- All it needed was some fine-tuning. The black dog is a full grown Newfoundland to gauge how big it is. Ok, thats Todd the WeinerDog, but don’t tell Triton and John Cooper, they believe it.

It is a dream now. Really a dream come true.

Stay after it and you’re going to win.

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AndyG said:
Here’s what I would do if that were my situation-

Ball joints would be at the bottom of the list. Other than making sure they are torqued-Unless it has been played in really hard with 35s you don’t have the mileage to have a lot of failure, And I say that from a typical standpoint- not a guarantee

I would raise the tires and carefully check the unit bearings for play

Make sure the stabilizer does not have a gas charge and if it does it just takes a second with the Schrader to bleed it.

I would get under the jeep and make sure the axles are square to the skid plate and tune as needed

I would make sure they are both centered

Get the stabilizer on

I would set the toe myself

I would make sure the caster is in the realm of 5 1/2 to 6° with one upper control arm and let the other one be adjusted to fall in place. I like passenger side to be dominant.

Make sure the tire pressure is perfectly even and I would have it about 28 psi.

Then I would drive the Jeep and see how it does

I would barely raise the jeep one front tire at a time and put a long strong rod/lever under the tire and see if you can get play from the ball joints- And let that be your grand finale if you do-

I would also get the Johnny joints that mount in the front axle and probably change the right front upper control arm mount for more strength-

I can appreciate that they understand what an offset ball joint can do but the odds of really needing it are really slim. And the odds of it going in right slimmer.

The jeep in the picture belongs to me and it had 47,000 miles and you could not hold it on the road-

It has a full four-inch savvy lift and everything is well done- All it needed was some fine-tuning. The black dog is a full grown Newfoundland to gauge how big it is. Ok, thats Todd the WeinerDog, but don’t tell Triton and John Cooper, they believe it.

It is a dream now. Really a dream come true.

Stay after it and you’re going to win.

View attachment 486449

View attachment 486450
Click to expand...

John, Thank you for your time on this. I dont think its my ball joints and cant elicit any play in them. New Metalcloak lift install with springs, control arms, and track bars. drove well with my field alignment until I put the Currectlink steering on and took it in for a proper alignment.
my other jeep (03 TJR) has the same lift and tie rods. It is a pleasure to drive both on & off road.
I spy a UCF tummy. did you do 1' BL & MML? how noisy are those Goodyears @ highway speeds & are they 35s?
 
John Middleton said:
John, Thank you for your time on this. I dont think its my ball joints and cant elicit any play in them. New Metalcloak lift install with springs, control arms, and track bars. drove well with my field alignment until I put the Currectlink steering on and took it in for a proper alignment.
my other jeep (03 TJR) has the same lift and tie rods. It is a pleasure to drive both on & off road.
I spy a UCF tummy. did you do 1' BL & MML? how noisy are those Goodyears @ highway speeds & are they 35s?
Click to expand...

My 03 TJR: 190K on the clock
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John Middleton said:
John, Thank you for your time on this. I dont think its my ball joints and cant elicit any play in them. New Metalcloak lift install with springs, control arms, and track bars. drove well with my field alignment until I put the Currectlink steering on and took it in for a proper alignment.
my other jeep (03 TJR) has the same lift and tie rods. It is a pleasure to drive both on & off road.
I spy a UCF tummy. did you do 1' BL & MML? how noisy are those Goodyears @ highway speeds & are they 35s?
Click to expand...

Tires are close to 35’s if they were aired up all the way….closer to 34 at 26 ish psi, dead silent but rumor has it they won’t stay that way- body lift and mml, savvy skid. I think I’m at 1 1/4” but can’t swear to it- same steering as yours. The Duratrac is a soft tire and rocks eat them up, the new Kevlar version may be an improvement.

My White 04 TJR has the UCF set up, mml, body lift and a milder tuck, Clayton arms and ZJ steering.

Neither have been on a rack since I’ve had them.

Trying to think what is going on with your pull- and those changing camber numbers make zero sense. Feel like I’m missing something. Keep us posted.

Overall you know what you are doing and have good stuff under them- the caster numbers make me wonder about control arm bind, and how you don’t have pinion angle drama…. But if it’s good it’s good.

You are close to getting it dialed for sure. Not sure I trusts that machines’/techs ’results given camber variation with fixed axles.
 
AndyG said:
Tires are close to 35’s if they were aired up all the way….closer to 34 at 26 ish psi, dead silent but rumor has it they won’t stay that way- body lift and mml, savvy skid. I think I’m at 1 1/4” but can’t swear to it- same steering as yours. The Duratrac is a soft tire and rocks eat them up, the new Kevlar version may be an improvement.

My White 04 TJR has the UCF set up, mml, body lift and a milder tuck, Clayton arms and ZJ steering.

Neither have been on a rack since I’ve had them.

Trying to think what is going on with your pull- and those changing camber numbers make zero sense. Feel like I’m missing something. Keep us posted.

Overall you know what you are doing and have good stuff under them- the caster numbers make me wonder about control arm bind, and how you don’t have pinion angle drama…. But if it’s good it’s good.

You are close to getting it dialed for sure. Not sure I trusts that machines’/techs ’results given camber variation with fixed axles.
Click to expand...

Thanks again! Keep currently on my lift for rear main seal (should be done today) so back on steering issue this week. I’m going to adjust track bar one turn and try the one upper control arm bounce and disconnect & then see how it drives.
As with any new ride, several things to work over. I’ve got a UCF skid off another Jeep and leftover MC bumpstops that work great for a body lift. This LJ has a Banks turbo on it so think I can spin a bigger tire w/out a regear.

IMG_9457.jpeg
 
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