That hood is probably too shiny for RINC!
Injury from soft shackle failure
- Thread starter rjaym
- Start date
That hood is probably too shiny for RINC!
That sounds logical but at around 46 min into the video he shows the sleeve, which he says was thru the ring mount and it wasn't damaged.
I'd like to see a close-up of the entirety of the sleeve because he is completely full of crap. This is all the damage to the sleeve it takes to completely cut an ATV winch line picking up 2 35" MTR's mounted on rims and it did it in about 15" or less of travel.
The sleeve could have moved between pulls. Sleeve or no sleeve it was still crushed on a 90 degree edge when the Jeeper pulling went full whisky foot.
Sheaths don't cover 100%, especially near the loop or knot. The shackle could have shifted so that one of those areas was on the sharp edge.
I don't believe that they put enough load on that shackle for it to fail unless it was otherwise compromised.
Why not? They ran a rope across a sharp 90 degree angle then shock loaded it with possibly tens of thousands of pounds of force.
How can determine the amount of load that was put on that shackle.
This is one thing I have always wondered ? how much load is being placed on my winch or strap. I don't do snow or much mud mostly dirt and rocks, but even then how much am I pulling when winching someone out of a hole or up a steep trail
I've never used them but there are many manuals and articles that cover how to do the estimates. There are even online calculators but first you need to read a bit to estimate things like mire resistance. Some of the off road recovery training classes probably spend time on the subject too.
You can't. But they ignored several good rules to follow. The first one is the size of the kinetic rope. That is what I would and have used with my 1 ton dually yanking out a stuck propane truck mired in mud. For TJ size stuff, you need to step it down to 3/4" or so.
Second violation is to always protect your rigging like your life depends on it. If you have bumper tabs with sharp corners, get a big bow shackle in there to make the connection.
Third is to be very aware that sleeves hide damage. We don't know that the soft shackle was not damaged previously and the sleeve hid the damage.
There are charts and such but mostly you need to depend on experience and caution. If you don't have a lot of experience, get some help.
Even if the sleeve was directly on the sharp edge, that doesn't stop it from being cut. Sleeves just don't work that well for that type of damage. They work moderately well for abrasion from tree branches, very large diameter rock edges, and general use that wouldn't cut the shackle but would cause a small bit of wear. Other than that, don't trust them.
Complacency can kill we already know that from not even a year ago and yet for some reason these things keep repeating.
I have done many recovery classes and I cannot stress enough to folks is we are out recreating and recovery operations should never be rushed. Even in situations where things are precarious , you stabilize then regroup for the recovery and not just dive in head first.
Since we are armchairing this obviously not rushing is the first thing and really the biggest thing that should be taken away from this. Making sure to follow the acronym STOP works here just like in any emergency or survival situation. Taking a second to either dig or pack a track probably would have got them out most likely on the first pull.
Here are a couple things I observed. One major one is the positioning of the rope on the vehicle’s and positioning on the trail to maximize pulling forces to benefit the recovery. On the back pull they hooked the rope to the driver’s side of the Bronco. You can see as the Jeep pulled back that the Bronco pulled further off the trail. Had they hooked the Bronco on the passenger side and increased the offset of the Jeep as much as possible those forces would have helped pull the Bronco back onto the trail.
Next Blaine eluded to the size of the rope and that leads to the next thing and that is equipment sizing in general. When you see the damage to the Broncos bumper and how close this recovery could have went more sideways than it did it just stresses how important making sure both the correct equipment is used coupled with the proper technique for that equipment. The way those shackle eyes are done on that bumper using a yoke to utilize both simultaneously may be a better option.
It was mentioned in the vid and several places online about the use of a damper. There is a reason why you do not see them used as either the rope will just slip through if an end failure occurs or if the damper is secured well enough to the line you just added that mass and in the wrong circumstances you could turn it into a projectile.
I have done many recovery classes and I cannot stress enough to folks is we are out recreating and recovery operations should never be rushed. Even in situations where things are precarious , you stabilize then regroup for the recovery and not just dive in head first.
Since we are armchairing this obviously not rushing is the first thing and really the biggest thing that should be taken away from this. Making sure to follow the acronym STOP works here just like in any emergency or survival situation. Taking a second to either dig or pack a track probably would have got them out most likely on the first pull.
Here are a couple things I observed. One major one is the positioning of the rope on the vehicle’s and positioning on the trail to maximize pulling forces to benefit the recovery. On the back pull they hooked the rope to the driver’s side of the Bronco. You can see as the Jeep pulled back that the Bronco pulled further off the trail. Had they hooked the Bronco on the passenger side and increased the offset of the Jeep as much as possible those forces would have helped pull the Bronco back onto the trail.
Next Blaine eluded to the size of the rope and that leads to the next thing and that is equipment sizing in general. When you see the damage to the Broncos bumper and how close this recovery could have went more sideways than it did it just stresses how important making sure both the correct equipment is used coupled with the proper technique for that equipment. The way those shackle eyes are done on that bumper using a yoke to utilize both simultaneously may be a better option.
It was mentioned in the vid and several places online about the use of a damper. There is a reason why you do not see them used as either the rope will just slip through if an end failure occurs or if the damper is secured well enough to the line you just added that mass and in the wrong circumstances you could turn it into a projectile.
Last edited:
That and you can't predict the future or where the failure will occur. If you put the weight in the middle (assuming it could actually work) then either end of the line can still reach either vehicle. If you place it closer to one end, then the long end can reach a vehicle. In this case, the Bronco should have had the hood up for some level of protection.
The rest of your points are outstanding.
There is so much confusion and mythology about basic recovery that it boggles the mind. The amount of BS has become so ingrained that it's pretty scary how little folks work to learn the truth and simple basics of safety. They see a lot of folks doing something a certain way, they copy it with no thought given as to what is really going on.
Then we have the same BS perpetuated by companies that sell gear. It all adds up to some pretty terrible practices that can get you hurt.
