Oops should have mentioned @scottgraham instead of @Wildman when I referred to his flat fenders. Sorry.
TJ vs the Old Willys Jeeps
- Thread starter Peter Panagakos
- Start date
I wish the TJ design team had of had @jscherb. It would be a more beautiful world.
They nailed the TJ body design up to the front turn signals. We had finally gotten past square headlights , and they slapped those turn signals in the front fenders just remind us how bad it could be.
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Except yours aren't in production, and the MCE's prb cost about the same if I had made myself from steel including my time (and screw ups)
This is true. But I'm happy to make anything I design available to a company or person who wants to go into production.Except yours aren't in production, and the MCE's prb cost about the same if I had made myself from steel including my time (and screw ups)
It's not just the flat fender look I am talking about. I would really like to take a CJ2/3 tub and widen it to fit a TJ frame. Then lengthen the body also in the door opening area as that is where it is the most cramped. The WHOLE Flatty look would be KEWL on a TJ frame. Use old school gauges but keep the FI since it is MUCH better off-road than any carburetor I have ever played with.
Yes a little more than what I would like. There is a CJ2 my neighbor keeps trying to sell me that still might end up in my driveway.
I really like what you have done with the fenders, but I am not so fond of the LED head lights...
Rubicon John
TJ Enthusiast
I think a lot of posters in here hit the nail on the head. I’ve worked on German and British luxury vehicles professionally for the past 10 years. The absolute best thing to me about my TJ is how incredibly easy it is to work on. Yet, it still has OBD2 diagnostics to fall in line with modern technology and emissions guidelines. Parts are dirt cheap and knowledge is abundant. I’m sorry I have no comparison to a CJ series Jeep but I have to say that the TJ is about as good of a blend of simplicity and modern day diagnostics that you will find.
I have a Willy's in the garage and I've obviously got a TJ. I've been around some JKs and driven some YJs (have one but it can't drive) and my granddad drove a CJ-5 throughout my childhood.
The TJ is my favorite and the most reliable. The Willy's is always breaking and needs to be towed for longer trips or for repair (it's also not driven enough, so the unsealed gas tank and Carb, don't mix well). JKs and newer just look like crossover SUVs IMO. They're fine, but the only draw for me to a new Jeep would be the ECO diesel, as Jeeps should be standard with a diesel and option for a high HP V8 IMO. Unfortunately new diesels are completely F'ed, so you're actually better doing a swap IMO for diesel, but that's obviously a can of worms.
When it's working, the Willy's is the most fun. The wife and I would love to have a Willy's pickup, but we'll probably not go that route due to practicality.
The YJs are super nice too, but very similar to TJs and the TJ is a little more comfortable and the gas cap isn't weird.
If one wanted the most reliable and simple Jeep, I would personally go for a TJ with a mechanically injected diesel with manual transmission. For practicality and typical reliability, common rails tend to have less problems, but they tend to be newer too and if you had a problem with a wire or ECU, you might go into limp mode. I look at this just like our tractors. Gas tractors always seem to break down or a wire gets pulled off and the diesels start right up as long as the battery is good (we don't see extreme cold, but we do have 2 tractors that literally have the exact same block but one is gas and the other diesel). With the exact same battery and newly rebuilt carb and ignition system the gas is much harder to start than the diesel, which has more hours and less maintenance done. Though the gas has more HP it can't do the work of the diesel. I really don't know of a positive over the diesel version. I've been around trucks with similar experiences, except for trucks the diesel version is MUCH MORE expensive.
Another reason I do find the TJ the best of all worlds, because the problems are known, as are the fixes. My TJ is kind of based on taking a lot of tried and true and making something that's extremely capable, reliable, and versatile. The only wrench in the system, is me as a mechanic and electrician. Also I could certainly side with someone that suggested using something like a small block for the engine, since they're extremely robust and parts are incredibly common, but at that point I'd stick with the inline 4.0 and just ensure my gear ratios were a bit on the high side (numerically). Though I can see the draw, I don't trust forced induction on gas engines for these applications, just too many failure points for going to places with poor cell service.
Really the only problems I have found with a TJ are the gear ratios, transfer case, preference for bigger tires (and all that entails), lack of a practical diesel option in the US, brakes, noise, and probably a few more I am forgetting. I think Mike (https://wranglertjforum.com/threads/vm-2-8-turbo-diesel-frame-up-tj-build.17369/) is building a TJ the way it SHOULD have been built from the factory. Personally I found the Cummins, to just be a faster swap option, hence my R2.8 conversion. However, I should have bought another TJ and gone a little slower in my build, but I would have spent A LOT more money at that time, rather than over time.
For all the problems, there's some very solid and known fixes with the TJs and most fixes aren't that difficult and can be implemented over time. A full tub off rebuild isn't a crazy task or price compared to buying a new JL Rubicon. At the same time a Willy's or CJ can be completely customized as well, but I do think the TJ has more to start with, for some style and function.
An obvious draw for the JK and JL are probably the 4 door unlimited models. To each their own, but I'd rather rebuild a mid-2000s 3/4 or 1 ton diesel truck, but I do have to tow occasionally, hence my major bias. But my 3/4 ton from the factory gets hung up less than my TJ, until it simply wouldn't fit and it would get better MPG than the TJ while towing the TJ. When the truck does get hung up, it's 3x harder than the TJ to recover. I'd probably even get a FJ before I got a new 4 door unlimited.
The TJ is my favorite and the most reliable. The Willy's is always breaking and needs to be towed for longer trips or for repair (it's also not driven enough, so the unsealed gas tank and Carb, don't mix well). JKs and newer just look like crossover SUVs IMO. They're fine, but the only draw for me to a new Jeep would be the ECO diesel, as Jeeps should be standard with a diesel and option for a high HP V8 IMO. Unfortunately new diesels are completely F'ed, so you're actually better doing a swap IMO for diesel, but that's obviously a can of worms.
When it's working, the Willy's is the most fun. The wife and I would love to have a Willy's pickup, but we'll probably not go that route due to practicality.
The YJs are super nice too, but very similar to TJs and the TJ is a little more comfortable and the gas cap isn't weird.
If one wanted the most reliable and simple Jeep, I would personally go for a TJ with a mechanically injected diesel with manual transmission. For practicality and typical reliability, common rails tend to have less problems, but they tend to be newer too and if you had a problem with a wire or ECU, you might go into limp mode. I look at this just like our tractors. Gas tractors always seem to break down or a wire gets pulled off and the diesels start right up as long as the battery is good (we don't see extreme cold, but we do have 2 tractors that literally have the exact same block but one is gas and the other diesel). With the exact same battery and newly rebuilt carb and ignition system the gas is much harder to start than the diesel, which has more hours and less maintenance done. Though the gas has more HP it can't do the work of the diesel. I really don't know of a positive over the diesel version. I've been around trucks with similar experiences, except for trucks the diesel version is MUCH MORE expensive.
Another reason I do find the TJ the best of all worlds, because the problems are known, as are the fixes. My TJ is kind of based on taking a lot of tried and true and making something that's extremely capable, reliable, and versatile. The only wrench in the system, is me as a mechanic and electrician. Also I could certainly side with someone that suggested using something like a small block for the engine, since they're extremely robust and parts are incredibly common, but at that point I'd stick with the inline 4.0 and just ensure my gear ratios were a bit on the high side (numerically). Though I can see the draw, I don't trust forced induction on gas engines for these applications, just too many failure points for going to places with poor cell service.
Really the only problems I have found with a TJ are the gear ratios, transfer case, preference for bigger tires (and all that entails), lack of a practical diesel option in the US, brakes, noise, and probably a few more I am forgetting. I think Mike (https://wranglertjforum.com/threads/vm-2-8-turbo-diesel-frame-up-tj-build.17369/) is building a TJ the way it SHOULD have been built from the factory. Personally I found the Cummins, to just be a faster swap option, hence my R2.8 conversion. However, I should have bought another TJ and gone a little slower in my build, but I would have spent A LOT more money at that time, rather than over time.
For all the problems, there's some very solid and known fixes with the TJs and most fixes aren't that difficult and can be implemented over time. A full tub off rebuild isn't a crazy task or price compared to buying a new JL Rubicon. At the same time a Willy's or CJ can be completely customized as well, but I do think the TJ has more to start with, for some style and function.
An obvious draw for the JK and JL are probably the 4 door unlimited models. To each their own, but I'd rather rebuild a mid-2000s 3/4 or 1 ton diesel truck, but I do have to tow occasionally, hence my major bias. But my 3/4 ton from the factory gets hung up less than my TJ, until it simply wouldn't fit and it would get better MPG than the TJ while towing the TJ. When the truck does get hung up, it's 3x harder than the TJ to recover. I'd probably even get a FJ before I got a new 4 door unlimited.
All of the above, in spades! I seriously thought about a CJ, or even a Willys build, but ended up with the TJ pretty much for the same reasons, although I really could do without the darn ECM. When it works, it works great, when it doesn't, it can be a pain. But the coil springs, air conditioning, and a real roof and windows are must haves as I'm not getting any younger and I'm in the Florida heat.
Just before I bought the TJ, I found a CJ online that someone had swapped a Mercedes OM617A into - the same engine as is in my car. I thought long and hard about going to take a look at it - it was 3 hours away. Decided not to, reluctantly. An OM617 swap is *NOT* straightforward, and I'd be buying into Goddess only knows what compromises made on its install.
I do wish the TJ was closer to the Willys in size.
Automatic transmissions have their place, but are mostly the answer to a question nobody was asking - and it irritates me to no end to see all the TJs with retrofitted touchscreens. I'm going to do my very best to never own a vehicle of any kind with a touch screen built into the dash! A Garmin GPS (have 'em in all my vehicles) is bad enough, but at least its small, doesn't cost much, has no subscription costs, and does its one thing very well.
I need to have my modern tech in all of my Jeeps. Luckily my 'touch screen" is easy enough to transfer from Jeep to Jeep.
