Downhill off-road crawling
- Thread starter RHanna
- Start date
OP. I put a atlas II (5:1) in my automatic TJ. Love it. As others have said, 4:1 or better makes a huge difference. I like to go slow and enjoy the scenery. Works great for me.
I dunno, I wheeled my previous TJ with a 231 in the rocks almost exclusively and I never thought it was a problem. I like my current 4:1 tcase better but there's a lot of rock crawling being done with the 231.
I wheeled the 231 and manual in the rocks for 4 years. I’m just saying it’s why the OP feels like he’s going too fast. The solution is a 4:1 or deeper TCase ratio. That will slow everything down and give the driver more control. It’s an expensive upgrade, but definitely an upgrade in the rocks.
It's all about perspective. I once wheeled with a guy, in a TJ Sport, that was new to serious off-roading. He kept coming on the radio and saying he felt like he was going too fast over the rocks. I figured it was just him being new. An hour or so into the trip, the distinct smell of burnt clutch was in the air. I asked him to stop, so I could take a look. When he got out of the Jeep, I noticed the transfer case lever was in 4WH. I asked him if he had been driving like that the whole time, and he said yes. I reached in switched it to 4WL, then told him to try that. The rest of the day there was no more burnt clutch smell, he was smiling, and never complained again about going too fast.
For the record, I did tell him in the pre-brief to use 4WL. Unfortunately, he forgot that part!
X2, never underestimate the wheeler's ability to know the basics.It's all about perspective. I once wheeled with a guy, in a TJ Sport, that was new to serious off-roading. He kept coming on the radio and saying he felt like he was going too fast over the rocks. I figured it was just him being new. An hour or so into the trip, the distinct smell of burnt clutch was in the air. I asked him to stop, so I could take a look. When he got out of the Jeep, I noticed the transfer case lever was in 4WH. I asked him if he had been driving like that the whole time, and he said yes. I reached in switched it to 4WL, then told him to try that. The rest of the day there was no more burnt clutch smell, he was smiling, and never complained again about going too fast.
For the record, I did tell him in the pre-brief to use 4WL. Unfortunately, he forgot that part!
I had a guy in a nearly new Rubicon on the trail who was having lots of problems with his tires spinning/slipping on the rocks. When I asked what pressure he had aired down to, he was very huffy when he said "they're aired way down" and immediately rolled his window back up (it was hot and he had his a/c on). I pushed him a little harder 50' further down the trail and he was really pissed off that I asked again... he finally said under protest "all the way down to 20 psi". With some verbal help from a few others we finally got him down to 12 psi and he had no more problems. We never saw him again in the club meetings or on the trail again.
Probably best he did not return. I am sad for him but if you are not able to learn from more experienced folks, it can lead to safety issues on the trail.
I've got a basic answer to give
I also have a 5 speed manual, and sometimes I also want to go slower than what engine braking allows. Yes, I do use engine braking and brakes simultaneously in those cases.
Note that a significant difference is that I have a 4:1 low range, so I don't have to do this often, but I have no problem doing it when I need to on the very steep descents that rev the engine very high while engine braking. P.S. I will turn a blind eye to the derogatory statement about manual transmissions
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Neal
TJ Enthusiast
It ain't always the new guys who forget the basics. Case in point: I was taking my LJ on some local trails to check everything out prior to my recent Moab trip. First obstacle was a 6-foot sandstone outcrop that I had easily walked up on many occasions. I stopped to let my wife out so she could take pictures and in the ensuing conversation I got distracted and forgot to shift from 4 Hi to 4 Low. Thought I had, but it took me three unsuccessful tries with both axles locked to figure out why the tires were spinning and I wasn't going up. Old Timer's Disease was my only excuse.Why are the new guys always smarter than we are, Jerry?
Back to the OP's question, my LJ has the 6-speed manual, 231 TC and 4.56 gears with ARB lockers on both ends turning 35's. Descents have almost always been plenty slow for me in 1st gear/4L, but in those instances where I wanted to go even slower just a bit of light pressure on the brake pedal got me all the slow I wanted. I'd have to be on a nearly vertical descent to want to use the brakes rather than engine compression. Well, that and having the newb in front of me stop halfway down to think things over...
OP
A little background. I don’t mind sounding like a newbie because I am and I’d rather ask a rather simple question and get answers than not know what others are doing. Especially with a manual transmission.
I grew up on a 3 wheeler and 4 wheeler so I have a pretty good since of control and balance while off-roading. I know it isn’t the exact same but there is a skill learned from doing that for over 30 years. I’ve never owned a manual transmission vehicle but I enjoy driving the Jeep.
Eventually I’ll get a 241 or atlas just not right now and the 231 is really slow in 1st. It’s easy to keep it from stalling while crawling there are just some areas going downhill that I’d like to go slow or almost stop. I’m getting used to everything else and I don’t mind going up hill and stalling. I did that last time I went and I think I can start my Jeep without the clutch already.
I grew up on a 3 wheeler and 4 wheeler so I have a pretty good since of control and balance while off-roading. I know it isn’t the exact same but there is a skill learned from doing that for over 30 years. I’ve never owned a manual transmission vehicle but I enjoy driving the Jeep.
Eventually I’ll get a 241 or atlas just not right now and the 231 is really slow in 1st. It’s easy to keep it from stalling while crawling there are just some areas going downhill that I’d like to go slow or almost stop. I’m getting used to everything else and I don’t mind going up hill and stalling. I did that last time I went and I think I can start my Jeep without the clutch already.
OP
I’m glad that you made this post. I’m a newbie too and I love wheeling in the rocks. Nothing “extreme” at least by my own measure but challenging enough that roll over and harm is possible without control and thought out placement of the rig. In the very beginning I asked a similar question to my friends who know a lot more than I do and then the answer was “experience” now with a handful more trips under my belt (still a newbie in all regard) downhill crawling using engine braking only is at a speed bordering dangerous and careless. Enter in brakes and clutch and we’re looking at significant premature wear of those components if I continue to wheel on an average of once/twice a month. The 231 even with appropriate axle gearing is very fast on precarious downhill obstacles and while you will gain experience and learn how to control the rig with the 231, I personally am going to swap out the 231. I don’t know if that was helpful but I do hear you and understand your point of view.
Wow, OP asked a simple question…..and all you “supporting members” can do is give the man a hard time instead of answering a simple question.
What is the matter, you guys don’t know the answer…key board Jeep drivers
Beyond them sharing that they feel like they're going too fast downhill and wants more control to slow down (or advise on how to brake in these scenarios)?
Regardless of where you're at, there's the same things that accomplish this. The only missing bit I read above is the trade offs of the solutions.