'02 Wrangler X Rust Nightmare: Looking for Advice

NicholasC1988 said:
I'm seeing if the lawyer through my work can do anything, but I'm not holding my breath..
Click to expand...
You bought it in Illinois? Is so, no dealer is allowed to sell an "as is" car in Illinois pursuant to a new law passed in July 2017. It is now illegal in Illinois to disclaim the warranty of merchantability and all dealers must use a modified/new "Buyers guide". If they do break the law and sell a car as is, then the purchaser may cancel the transaction at his or her discretion. Does your paperwork say "as is"? Did you by chance sign an arbitration agreement too? An arb agreement protects the dealer from being sued, so you will have to pursue action in arbitration, location amd rules determined by the agreement. The law is pretty straight forward on this issue though. Contact Dmitry Feofanov at 815-986-7303. He specializes in and loves these kinds of cases. Btw, you will get a kick out of him when you talk to him.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Chris and NicholasC1988
While the frame under the skid plate is obviously terrible, the rest of the frame, at least from the pictures, looks OK. Even the torque boxes look alright. I have to disagree with the others who say that if the skid plate area is that bad, then the frame is probably just as bad everywhere else. That really isn't the case with TJs. Thanks to the lack of drain holes, water and salt and muck collected at the lowest points of the frame without anywhere to go. The rest of the frame is *usually* OK, though obviously not always.

What you showed here is definitely fixable with Safe T Caps. The rear control arm area is probably also rotting away, so you'll most likely need the full channel caps. But you should naturally check the rest of the frame first. The other part of the frame that occasionally rots out is at the rear corners. How does the frame look there?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Leinhit, NicholasC1988 and tquig01
Not sure exactly how these trucks are put together but can't you just lift off the body and swap the drivetrain and suspension to another frame? Can't you find a rustfree frame from the southern states under $1,000? http://car-part.com Or buy a complete truck at a southern state salvage auction that was a burn, flood or other damage not involving the frame like maybe this one: https://www.copart.com/lot/41324119
 
  • Like
Reactions: NicholasC1988
atikovi said:
Not sure exactly how these trucks are put together but can't you just lift off the body and swap the drivetrain and suspension to another frame? Can't you find a rustfree frame from the southern states under $1,000? http://car-part.com Or buy a complete truck at a southern state salvage auction that was a burn, flood or other damage not involving the frame like maybe this one: https://www.copart.com/lot/41324119
Click to expand...

To some extent yes, but it is still very involved. Sourcing a good frame is difficult, especially considering you need to find one specific to your year (97-02 and 03-06), make sure it is straight and rust free, transport the frame, coat the frame, pull the whole Jeep apart, and then put it back together.

And if you're gonna do that, you better make sure the body is rust free. And if you're pulling the engine out, why wouldn't you put new seals in it? And if the axles are coming out, wouldn't it make sense to clean those up and maybe do lockers / regear? In theory, it might be as simple as pull body, swap drivetrain, put body back, but in reality there is a lot more to it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: NicholasC1988
I think OP want's to get that back on the road as simply as possible so a basic swap is called for. Sure, if you see a leaking seal when the engine is out you address it, but no lockers or regear stuff at this point. Buy that one in the Copart link for $2,500, drag it home, swap the frame, then part out the rest. Could end up costing nothing in the end. That's assuming OP has the space and ability of course.
 
  • Like
Reactions: NicholasC1988
atikovi said:
I think OP want's to get that back on the road as simply as possible so a basic swap is called for. Sure, if you see a leaking seal when the engine is out you address it, but no lockers or regear stuff at this point. Buy that one in the Copart link for $2,500, drag it home, swap the frame, then part out the rest. Could end up costing nothing in the end. That's assuming OP has the space and ability of course.
Click to expand...

It isn't that simple. If you have a rotted frame, the chances are high that there is a lot more wrong with the Jeep. Simple frame swaps aren't a thing. Ask me how I know...
 
  • Like
Reactions: NicholasC1988
Sucks that this happened. I can’t see everything on your photos, but to me your best option is to replace just the center section of the frame with SafeTCaps. With the center section removed you can clean and treat the inside of the frame with rust converter, then spray the remainder of the frame with a rust converter. The torque box (floor support) appears ok in the picture that I see. Unless the brakes lines are leaking there likely is no urgency to replace them although that is a job you can likely do yourself. I wouldn’t expect welding in a center section of the frame to cost more than $400-500. Cheer up - you own a Jeep.
 
  • Like
Reactions: NicholasC1988
Dam man, sorry to see this but your not alone. Just about every car junki has a horror story or two to tell.

If you can legally make the dealer take it back then I’d go that route. Work out something with them even if you lose some of your money it’s better than trying to salvage that particular TJ. It’s a money pit. Even if you don’t have to replace the entire frame it’s going to be hell expensive to fix it properly. You’ll probably be into it more than it’s worth or what you could buy a solid TJ for. Been there done that. Once a vehicle gets cancer in it’s bones it will be a never ending headache so my advice is cut your loses. Buy that truck and save for a West coast TJ. We don’t salt our roads like back east.
 
  • Like
Reactions: NicholasC1988
jodomcfrodo said:
What a bunch of bastards to sell you a Jeep like that. It looks like they did a fairly good job of covering it up too. Looks like they even painted the driveshaft. Not many people would have noticed any signs of the condition of the frame. I'd definitely talk to a lawyer first, but if that doesn't come through then I'd look into safety caps. There are plenty of shops around Illinois that have done them before since half the Jeeps around here need them.
Click to expand...

I already have a few emails out to the in-network lawyers through my work. I hope it pans out..

In case that falls through do you have any shops you can recommend for a frame swap? I'd like to see what someone with some experience with TJ's would quote me.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Chris
taylormade73 said:
You bought it in Illinois? Is so, no dealer is allowed to sell an "as is" car in Illinois pursuant to a new law passed in July 2017. It is now illegal in Illinois to disclaim the warranty of merchantability and all dealers must use a modified/new "Buyers guide". If they do break the law and sell a car as is, then the purchaser may cancel the transaction at his or her discretion. Does your paperwork say "as is"? Did you by chance sign an arbitration agreement too? An arb agreement protects the dealer from being sued, so you will have to pursue action in arbitration, location amd rules determined by the agreement. The law is pretty straight forward on this issue though. Contact Dmitry Feofanov at 815-986-7303. He specializes in and loves these kinds of cases. Btw, you will get a kick out of him when you talk to him.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the advice! I shot him an email. He looks like the man for the job!
 
Most state implied warranties are for 1 month or 1,000 miles and that's for mechanical issues. Physical issues such as rust which could have been found with an inspection before purchase aren't usually covered. I assume you didn't take it to a mechanic to get it checked out first? After 8 months you're out of luck. Just the fact that you drove it the last 8 months shows the warranty of merchantability has been satisfied.
 
NicholasC1988 said:
I already have a few emails out to the in-network lawyers through my work. I hope it pans out..

In case that falls through do you have any shops you can recommend for a frame swap? I'd like to see what someone with some experience with TJ's would quote me.
Click to expand...

I have a particular shop that does all the work I don't have time for / can't do. They did my frame swap this winter. Depending on other things, you'd be looking at $2500 - $4500 for swapping the frame only. I had a whole bunch of extra stuff put on so my bill was a bit higher.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Chris
Thank you all for the support.. I was afraid I was going to get boo'd off the stage here. I'm looking into a lawyer. If that doesn't pan out I'll see how my wife feels about parking outside until I figure this mess out.. I'm weary about getting a frame on the internet without inspecting it in person. I'm pretty sure I would go down a rabbit hole once if start putting on a new frame, but that's why I bought a TJ in the first place :) .. I'll keep everyone posted, but I'm staying hopeful for now.

I took a look at the rear driver side frame and ahhhh! I'm going to brush it off tomorrow after work to see how deep it goes..

1564628582907.png
 
  • Like
Reactions: Chris
My 2 cents worth...not seeing the spring perch you reference, but Pocono Metal makes just a center frame section and is much cheaper than Auto Rust version. They also have control arm repair pieces along with the floor supports. I just did mine! The actual skid plate is pretty stout and you should be able to clean up. I also did the brake lines for the whole Jeep in Stainless Steel for just over $100.00. I dropped the fuel tank, that skid plate was junk! Mine isn’t a daily driver, just a toy I have had since new in 2000. You might get away with fixing the center sections and clean up the rest as best you can until you can do those.
 
How much did you pay for it? How much do you owe on it? How much could you get for it the way it is? Maybe people who could fix it themselves would pay more for it than you think and more overall than the cost of you having it repaired. If you can get out of it losing a thousand or two, that's still better than dumping 3 or 4K into an unknown hole.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ehallspqr
NicholasC1988 said:
Thank you all for the support.. I was afraid I was going to get boo'd off the stage here. I'm looking into a lawyer. If that doesn't pan out I'll see how my wife feels about parking outside until I figure this mess out.. I'm weary about getting a frame on the internet without inspecting it in person. I'm pretty sure I would go down a rabbit hole once if start putting on a new frame, but that's why I bought a TJ in the first place :) .. I'll keep everyone posted, but I'm staying hopeful for now.

I took a look at the rear driver side frame and ahhhh! I'm going to brush it off tomorrow after work to see how deep it goes..

View attachment 107510
Click to expand...

Like I said, the frame is toast in more areas than just the skid plate.

Take a scope to the inside of that frame and I guarantee you'll see it's rotted in more areas than just the skid plate area. That being said, the only real solution I see here (if you plan to keep it for a long time) is an entirely new frame (or another TJ).

As @jodomcfrodo pointed out, that's about $4500 give or take for just the frame swap. Figure you'll probably want to replace other things while you're in there, and then you can easily add another $1000 to $2000 to that price.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ehallspqr
Personally, I don't see a problem with installing some safety caps on this one. They would work fine for this use case.

I would weld in some new segments, clean up as much rust as possible, and see where you stand. You could either keep the Jeep or sell it at that point.

You could also part it out the way it stands. Hell, I'd probably buy some small stuff off you since you're so close. But I don't think selling it as is would work out well.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ericict
atikovi said:
Most state implied warranties are for 1 month or 1,000 miles and that's for mechanical issues. Physical issues such as rust which could have been found with an inspection before purchase aren't usually covered. I assume you didn't take it to a mechanic to get it checked out first? After 8 months you're out of luck. Just the fact that you drove it the last 8 months shows the warranty of merchantability has been satisfied.
Click to expand...
In Illinois it has norhing to do with whether the warranty of merchantability has been satisfied. It is illegal to sell a vehicle as is under Sec. 2L. Used motor vehicles; modification or disclaimer of implied warranty of merchantability limited. If a dealer does sell a vehicle as is, then the dealer is in violation of said law. Once in violation of said law, the purchaser may cancel or reverse the transaction regardless of reason. Dealer's maximum liability is purchase price on transaction. I'm unsure on statute of limitations to file complaint/suit.
 
Last edited:
Top Bottom
Back