12v Cummins vs EcoDiesel

12v Cummins VS EcoDiesel

  • 12v Cummins

  • EcoDiesel

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meangreen98

TJ Enthusiast
Joined
Apr 18, 2018
Messages
297
Location
East Bay, CA, USA
Whats going on folks,

I'd like a truck to do some occasional towing and to obviously use the bed for moving stuff from here to there.
Currently my TJ is my DD so I would really like something different soon and keep my TJ for a backup/ weekend car.

Currently the signs are pointing me to an older 12v Cummins but I want to hear some other input.
I don't really care for all the fancy gizmos offered in the newer EcoDiesel but they sure are nice (Dad owns one)
I just need A/C to keep me cool.

12V Pros
"Greatest diesel engine ever put in a pickup"
Smog Exempt
Afforfable
Insurance is cheap

12V Cons
Older engine in an older truck
MPG not as good as the EcoDiesel, so i heard

EcoDiesel Pros
Modern vehicle that can be luxurious
Tons of creature comforts
MPG are above 22, my dad own a crew cab ram EcoDiesel, when i drive it i average more than 22

EcoDiesel Cons
Expensive
Expensive to insure
Not smog exempt
 
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I own a '90 Dodge with the 12-valve Cummins. I bought it with 72,000 miles on it, and am now hovering around 420,000 miles on it. My rig runs the 727 automatic behind it. I mention this, because it is your basic 3-speed automatic, without an overdrive. So imagine my absolute joy when on a full-on road trip, cruise control set at 60 mph, I got just a tick under 23 mpg! Woo-hoo!

The only thing I've had to do to the engine was have the injector pump rebuilt at 220,000 miles, and at about 410,000 miles, I replaced the injectors with new OEM units. I've also replaced the water pump once. It is the best damn rig I have ever owned, and I love that 12-valve. When I retire, I will be seeking out the lowest mileage one I can find, and it will undoubtedly be the last truck I will ever need to buy.

12V gets my vote!
 
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I've heard good things about the EcoDiesel but your cons are right on. I'd look for a 12v in decent shape. Cummins makes good stuff and that 12 valve is a classic.
 
meangreen98 said:
https://www.ramforumz.com/showthread.php?t=234687

Some guy on there hit 300,000
Just saying, I don't think I'll put any more than 100,000 on my next purchase within 10 years. But still good to know they can last if driven right.
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Peruse Craigslist sometime and look for all the 12V rigs with well over 300,000 miles on 'em. That'll tell you all you need to know about their proven reliability. As for the EcoDiesel, I don't know a single thing about them. But until you start seeing the really high mileage numbers on a regular basis, I don't think you can make an accurate assessment, or a fair comparison, for that matter. One is the grand daddy of the light utility diesels, while the other is still wearing knickers. ;)
 
Chris said:
What years come with the 12V engines?
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Pretty sure it's '89 (for sure) to '96 (I think...). After that, it's the 24-valve engine. Feel free to correct me if I'm mistaken on that last year...

*Edit: I just looked it up. '98 ('98.5) is the change-over year to 24-valve engines. I was mistaken about it being '96. Sorry!
 
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It all depends on what you want and can afford. Diesels take a lot more maintain and need to be worked hard. I would imagine an older 12 valve needing maintenance pretty regularly. So add that to your cost.
 
I just bought a ram ecodiesel last January and have put around 12k miles on it so far. My dad has a grand Cherokee with the ED and he has about 30k. Mine has averaged 24 mpg over the 12k miles which includes around 2k of towing. While towing the jeep down to southern california I got 15mpg The only issue my father or I have had with the ED is a cold air temp sensor in the exhaust that would trigger false codes. About every 1k miles a CEL would come on then go away after a day or two). This issue was due to software and took Ram forever to fix it because of the whole EPA deal.

Other then the CEL which is now fixed (last issue was 4k miles ago) I have nothing but good things to say about the truck. I see your from the east bay like me. I bought mine over at elkgrove dodge.

Here are a few links to the dealer page.
Laramie 37k
https://www.elkgrovedodge.net/new/Ram/2018-Ram-1500-60fe1e550a0e0a177f810849ab45f8a6.htm

Tradesman 2wd 27k
https://www.elkgrovedodge.net/new/Ram/2018-Ram-1500-1b10cd040a0e0a6b4909c1050712f2f2.htm

The dealer has good prices but they WILL try and nickle and dime you. Hell, they didn't even put the rubber floor mats in my truck until I pointed out that I paid for them on the window sticker.

As far as maintenance if you get it done at the dealer then it will be pricey. It needs an oil change every 10k (12 quarts) and a fuel filter every 20k. The oil change is straight forward and I do not see anything that looks to difficult about the fuel filter.

Happy shopping.
 
tworley said:
It all depends on what you want and can afford. Diesels take a lot more maintain and need to be worked hard. I would imagine an older 12 valve needing maintenance pretty regularly. So add that to your cost.
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In my experience, I've had to change the oil, as one would expect on any vehicle. I adjust the valves at around 40,000 miles. Always meant to put in the new fuel filter I bought, but never have. Air filter changes from time-to-time. Not sure if that qualifies as "...a lot more to maintain...", but I doubt it. Was my daily driver (65 miles a day) for a little over 15 years, yet has also crossed the scales at just under 11,000 pounds with a load of scrap metal (truck weighs 5,300 lbs, if I recall correctly). Point is, it gets used in every way a truck can, and has required very little maintenance other than what common sense dictates. Again, it has 420,000 miles.
 
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Squatch said:
In my experience, I've had to change the oil, as one would expect on any vehicle. I adjust the valves at around 40,000 miles. Always meant to put in the new fuel filter I bought, but never have. Air filter changes from time-to-time. Not sure if that qualifies as "...a lot more to maintain...", but I doubt it. Was my daily driver (65 miles a day) for a little over 15 years, yet has also crossed the scales at just under 11,000 pounds with a load of scrap metal (truck weighs 5,300 lbs, if I recall correctly). Point is, it gets used in every way a truck can, and has required very little maintenance other than what common sense dictates. Again, it has 420,000 miles.
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I suppose I made it sound way worse. My bad.

When I had my 6.7 I was changing fuel filters every other oil change (roughly 10K), those were $60 a piece, the oil I used was $20 a gallon for a vehicle that used 3 gallons, for those who dont or didnt work the newer generations hard enough they had to deal with clogged exhaust filters (roughly $2k), and fuel has been higher than unleaded (around these parts anway) for several years now. The older 1st and 2nd gens have less emissions so they typically dont have the problems I was prone too and get much better mileage.
 
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tworley said:
I suppose I made it sound way worse. My bad.

When I had my 6.7 I was changing fuel filters every other oil change (roughly 10K), those were $60 a piece, the oil I used was $20 a gallon for a vehicle that used 3 gallons, for those who dont or didnt work the newer generations hard enough they had to deal with clogged exhaust filters (roughly $2k), and fuel has been higher than unleaded (around these parts anway) for several years now. The older 1st and 2nd gens have less emissions so they typically dont have the problems I was prone too and get much better mileage.
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Yeah, the oil changes are definitely costly due to the amount needed. I can only imagine how bad it'd be if you took it to a shop. Yikes! And the fuel is up at the top of the price range, as you mentioned. My '90 is the only diesel I've ever had, so that's the extent of my involvement with them. For me, it's easily the best rig I have ever owned, and it's hell-for-stout. But they are definitely not for everyone. Loud as hell when compared to my kid brother's Ford diesel! LOL
 
meangreen98 said:
https://www.ramforumz.com/showthread.php?t=234687

Some guy on there hit 300,000
Just saying, I don't think I'll put any more than 100,000 on my next purchase within 10 years. But still good to know they can last if driven right.
Click to expand...

Sold my '91.5 (intercooled) Regular Cab 4x4 ..... 5speed, posi. 3.54's
660,000 kilometers ....
Could pull your house off its foundation ...
These are 'dirty diesels' .... no electronics, no pollution control, noisy, and fun !
A 'real' diesel .....
Eco's are for freako's .......:)

Still driving an '02 RC 4x4 .... 5speed, posi. 3.54's
Tweaked 24v ....... :D
 
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I think the Cummins 12V is one of the best. The Ford 7.3 Powerstroke was also. It takes time to develop that reputation. And lately, the manufacturers have been falling far short. The Ford 6.0L, what a disaster. I can think of a dozen people who, on a truck less than 5 years old are stuck with $5K repair bills. Somehow Ford gets out of the warranty. I can't think of anyone having problems with a new gas engine.

The old diesels were built to haul. The new ones are designed to deliver great hauling performance AND incredible economy. Not sure how well those two needs will play out long term.

But the biggest problem with a diesel over a gas engine..... For the cost of repairing a diesel, you can usually BUY a NEW gas engine. And gasoline is often less expensive than diesel. Financially, a new diesel makes no sense.

But the trend is starting. Diesel is dying a quick death. India converted all their diesels to natural gas 6 years ago. Paris, London and several European countries have already banned diesel engines. And what North American manufacturers are doing to try and reduce/eliminate NOX gases??? Crazy.
 
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billiebob said:
But the biggest problem with a diesel over a gas engine..... For the cost of repairing a diesel, you can usually BUY a NEW gas engine.
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But then again, with the early diesels, you rarely have to repair 'em, so we're back where we started. ;)

I get what you're saying, and you're right. Getting my injector pump rebuilt wasn't cheap. While I cannot remember what I paid for the rebuild, I know that I couldn't afford it all at once, and I had to make two payments on it. Sheesh!
 
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