OP
Interesting thanks, I'm having a hard time finding anything on a serrated bleed shim. Whats that?
A discussion about shocks
- Thread starter kmas0n
- Start date
OP
Charge shock to 210, Turn little valve to close Schrader, remove loss-less chuck. Screw chuck back on, turn the little valve that opens the Schrader and the pressure now reads 200. This might be the wrong way to do this, but it seems to work.
I purchased a small tank, I forgot what the cylnders are called but I believe its 20#
It's a shim, with serrations, that allow bleed.
Google "fox bleed shim" and you'll see the cutouts that allow oil to pass.
OP
Oh!It's a shim, with serrations, that allow bleed.
Google "fox bleed shim" and you'll see the cutouts that allow oil to pass.
Great!
Thanks!
I guess I was asking more like how it worked. It allows a certain amount of fluid to pass before it even tries to deflect the shim? This would make the response to smaller imperfections less noticeable without affecting larger events?
Yep, it acts just like bleed holes, for small or real slow events, before the disc Valving is engaged. But bleed shims are directional, bleed holes affect both comp and rebound the same. UTV series shocks mostly use bleed shims.
OP
Ah, this is the last piece of this puzzle I needed. Now I get it, thanks
Brianj5600
TJ Expert
OP
OP
So I pulled the rear shocks today, and added a 0.15 shim under the compression stack (i'm going to refer to this as a bleed shim". Didn't change anything else...
Wow, super soft now. It used to feel like the rear was way too firm still... Small bumps (2-3") still threw the cab around pretty bad. After the bleed shim was added I could feel the difference backing out of the garage.
The good:
Small bump compliance is great... I can barely feel them now (uneven dips, manhole covers, small bumps). But the higher speed stuff is still firm enough that I'm not bottoming out. Driving hard around town, hitting curbs, speed bumps, trying to jump raised intersections, etc I only used 4" of up travel (measured with zip ties around the shaft)
Off-road it's much improved too. I don't like being tossed around, I don't like having my spine compressed. The ride is getting pretty plush now. The trails I frequent are not high-speed affairs, You never really get the chance to open it up except for quick gooses that get you to the next turn, then slow way down again. I'm really enjoying the high up-travel and soft ride. I was able to ignore most chatter and smaller stuff but not worry about a harsh landing when falling off of a foot-tall shelf.
I was able to maintain 15-20 mph on most of the trail and the one time I actually managed to get a little air there was no harsh bottom out, just a nice squishy landing. Checking the zip ties afterward showed that 3 of 4 were fully compressed, but not enough to break the zip tie.
The bad:
The Jeep's rear end kinda wallows now. Handling is less precise and body roll has increased in the corners. I have a feeling it will bottom out hard on a big G out. I also think in wide-open terrain it would be very easy to out-drive what the shocks can dampen... They are just too soft.
Verdict:
0.15 is a huge bleed shim. I'm going to try a 0.008 or one of those serrated shims we were talking about a few posts ago.
This is a learning experience. I'm sure in 6 months I'll re-read this post and think... man what a n00b, but I'm pleased with my current results.
How how to restore some street handling...
Wow, super soft now. It used to feel like the rear was way too firm still... Small bumps (2-3") still threw the cab around pretty bad. After the bleed shim was added I could feel the difference backing out of the garage.
The good:
Small bump compliance is great... I can barely feel them now (uneven dips, manhole covers, small bumps). But the higher speed stuff is still firm enough that I'm not bottoming out. Driving hard around town, hitting curbs, speed bumps, trying to jump raised intersections, etc I only used 4" of up travel (measured with zip ties around the shaft)
Off-road it's much improved too. I don't like being tossed around, I don't like having my spine compressed. The ride is getting pretty plush now. The trails I frequent are not high-speed affairs, You never really get the chance to open it up except for quick gooses that get you to the next turn, then slow way down again. I'm really enjoying the high up-travel and soft ride. I was able to ignore most chatter and smaller stuff but not worry about a harsh landing when falling off of a foot-tall shelf.
I was able to maintain 15-20 mph on most of the trail and the one time I actually managed to get a little air there was no harsh bottom out, just a nice squishy landing. Checking the zip ties afterward showed that 3 of 4 were fully compressed, but not enough to break the zip tie.
The bad:
The Jeep's rear end kinda wallows now. Handling is less precise and body roll has increased in the corners. I have a feeling it will bottom out hard on a big G out. I also think in wide-open terrain it would be very easy to out-drive what the shocks can dampen... They are just too soft.
Verdict:
0.15 is a huge bleed shim. I'm going to try a 0.008 or one of those serrated shims we were talking about a few posts ago.
This is a learning experience. I'm sure in 6 months I'll re-read this post and think... man what a n00b, but I'm pleased with my current results.
How how to restore some street handling...
Fughuert
TJ Enthusiast
Good info sounds like we have similar goals with ride quality.
You’re running 12” fox smoothies?
You’re running 12” fox smoothies?
OP
Yes, the rear shocks are the 12 smoothie remote reservoir. Originally tuned by pcoplin. Blaine had them for a while. I think toximus too. They were tuned for a heavy Jeep and since my Jeep is very light, I'm learning to tune then myself.
OP
Today pulled the shocks off again, re-valved. this time replaced the compression 0.020 bleed shim (I thought it was a 0.015) with a 0.010, and increased the large rebound from 0.010 to 0.012. Took it for a spin... My thoughts are the bleed shim was way too large and allowed the jeep to float and bound (very slowly). Cornering and general feel suffered. The thinner bleed shim tightened things up a bit and the thicker rebound shim will further limit sway and float to compensate for the bleed shim (it bleeds both ways)
Pleased to say it works. The jeep still absorbs the little stuff, still tightens up on the big hits, but no longer floats and cornering is nice and controlled again.
This is probably the 10th time I've changed valving and I feel like I'm narrowing in on my preferred setup.
Pleased to say it works. The jeep still absorbs the little stuff, still tightens up on the big hits, but no longer floats and cornering is nice and controlled again.
This is probably the 10th time I've changed valving and I feel like I'm narrowing in on my preferred setup.
Brianj5600
TJ Expert
I was not happy with my "custom tuned shocks" and decided to take apart my rear shocks. I don't like how stiff compression is even with a hard top, full doors, back seat and a full tank of gas. I told them I wanted the shocks tuned for good road manners since it is a daily driver. There are mostly .010", some .012" and a few .008" shims. I have not put the fronts on yet, but have low expectations for them.
This is mostly a post to vent and don't really want to name names. If you don't who the vendor is and want to know PM me. I had mixed reviews about the vendor by members, some after I ordered. I have not contacted the vendor, but their policy is mail them back on my dime and they will do a free revalve. As far off as I feel they are I don't think they will get it right the second time. Another reason I want to move on is that the rears had different valving. It seemed close, but I don't know why they would be different. I see no excuse for that.
I guess I'll be buying some shims. Anybody doing their own besides @kmas0n playing with valving? kmas0s, do you mind sharing what shims you have in your 12's? If it is someone's intellectual property, please respect it.
This is mostly a post to vent and don't really want to name names. If you don't who the vendor is and want to know PM me. I had mixed reviews about the vendor by members, some after I ordered. I have not contacted the vendor, but their policy is mail them back on my dime and they will do a free revalve. As far off as I feel they are I don't think they will get it right the second time. Another reason I want to move on is that the rears had different valving. It seemed close, but I don't know why they would be different. I see no excuse for that.
I guess I'll be buying some shims. Anybody doing their own besides @kmas0n playing with valving? kmas0s, do you mind sharing what shims you have in your 12's? If it is someone's intellectual property, please respect it.
OP
I pulled the shocks again today, but haven't cracked them open just yet. When I do I'll post here. A while back I scrapped the tune that was on them and started over so I'm on my own now and feel confident I won't be giving away any secrets.
OP
This is the way my shocks are currently valved. Blaine will probably look at this and laugh so hard he spits his coffee on his laptop. But you gotta learn somehow.
Compression
0.0010 0.95 Bleed Shim
0.008 1.6
0.012 0.95 Flutter
0.008 1.425
0.008 1.35
0.010 1.10
0.010 0.95
0.020 0.8 These last two are so close to the rate plate they do nothing.
Rebound
0.012 1.425
0.011 1.35
0.010 1.10
0.010 0.95
0.015 0.8
I re-valved them today removing the flutter valve on the compression stack. Everything else stayed the same. A little tighter now, but still very very smooth on small bumps, washboard. I can blow through washboard of 2-3 inches at any speed I want with near-zero loss of control. The other day... sorry, forgot who... someone posted a video of him hitting shitty streets with some fox IFP and it was terrible. With this current tune, I wouldn't even notice it. It's firm enough I can drive very aggressively and I haven't had a harsh bottom out yet. The bleed shim works in both directions, so the rebound is too light. This is no racecar... It's more like a trophy truck on a concrete racecourse. Not for everyone, but I'm loving it. I want to crank up the rebound until I actually experience the rear "packing" up
Compression
0.0010 0.95 Bleed Shim
0.008 1.6
0.012 0.95 Flutter
0.008 1.425
0.008 1.35
0.010 1.10
0.010 0.95
0.020 0.8 These last two are so close to the rate plate they do nothing.
Rebound
0.012 1.425
0.011 1.35
0.010 1.10
0.010 0.95
0.015 0.8
I re-valved them today removing the flutter valve on the compression stack. Everything else stayed the same. A little tighter now, but still very very smooth on small bumps, washboard. I can blow through washboard of 2-3 inches at any speed I want with near-zero loss of control. The other day... sorry, forgot who... someone posted a video of him hitting shitty streets with some fox IFP and it was terrible. With this current tune, I wouldn't even notice it. It's firm enough I can drive very aggressively and I haven't had a harsh bottom out yet. The bleed shim works in both directions, so the rebound is too light. This is no racecar... It's more like a trophy truck on a concrete racecourse. Not for everyone, but I'm loving it. I want to crank up the rebound until I actually experience the rear "packing" up
I wouldn't know a shim from a silver dollar and I have never actually opened up a shock to even peek inside.
Fughuert
TJ Enthusiast
Losing control of the rear on washboards is one of my biggest complaints with the fox ifp shocks I have. Just way too stiff.
I ordered some 2.0 smoothies, currently backordered to October.
I ordered some 2.0 smoothies, currently backordered to October.
Fughuert
TJ Enthusiast
Did you end up sticking with that valving with some added rebound? I’ve finally got my shocks in and driving around for a bit they’re too stiff.
I think I’m going to go down this path, I’m interested in learning. Since you seem happy with this setup and my Jeep being fairly light as well figured I’d try this out to start.
I’m having trouble finding info about the bleed shim. Do you remember where you got the bleed shim? Is it one of the 6 port ones, or is it just a normal shim you’re talking about? Googling fox bleed shim gives all sorts of different types.
I think I’m going to go down this path, I’m interested in learning. Since you seem happy with this setup and my Jeep being fairly light as well figured I’d try this out to start.
I’m having trouble finding info about the bleed shim. Do you remember where you got the bleed shim? Is it one of the 6 port ones, or is it just a normal shim you’re talking about? Googling fox bleed shim gives all sorts of different types.
Last edited:
OP
I added a slightly thicker rebound shim and then added what I'm calling a bleed shim.
For me, a bleed shim is simply another 0.008 shim under the main compression stack... this allows oil to pass through at low velocity with very little resistance. As soon as the velocity increases the oil must displace the shim stack like normal. Small bumps are completely gone. But as soon as you hit larger bumps the shock firms up normally.
I've taken the shocks off of my TJ and currently they reside under the rear of my JLUR. They are absolutely fantastic for fire roads, rutted out shitty trails and rock fields. Learning to valve my own shocks has been fun, and its amazing the control you have over your ride. I'm looking forward to hearing about your experiences.
Fughuert
TJ Enthusiast
Gotcha, I was looking all over for a .0010 bleed shim.
Still gearing up parts and such but once I’m ready and have the time to re-valve I’ll make sure to share my findings.