Arizona Rock Crawler

[bobthetj03]

leverage?

 

[rasband]

How?

More splines.

 

[mrblaine]

How?

See how long it takes to break them.

 

[mrblaine]

Several times now I've seen the 27 spline inners either brake or distort severely. Now that I've seen this break, along with your comment, it makes me wonder why the inners seem to go before the outers, when they are both the same material and spline count? Or, is it simply that my data sample isn't large enough and both are equally likely to break?

It is about 50/50 for us. We just don't like the problem of trying to get the piece out of the diff on the trail. I've not seen a broken 30 spline front inner.

 

[starkey480]

It is about 50/50 for us. We just don't like the problem of trying to get the piece out of the diff on the trail. I've not seen a broken 30 spline front inner.

I’m realizing now this is more difficult than just sticking a magnet in there lol.

 

[mrblaine]

I’m realizing now this is more difficult than just sticking a magnet in there lol.

I've never seen a magnet work. We've welded flat blade skinny screwdrivers to jack tools to sneak past the cross pin and smack them out that way. Sometimes we have to get more creative. We had 3 winches holding the one below in place. I made a lasso with a slip knot out of a piece of 5/16" Dyneema so we could winch out the piece in that one. It broke in a really dumb place but twisted the splines and locked it into the side gear.

 

[Alex01]

Update: trail was 10 hours of the most difficult and relentless rock crawling I’ve ever done. Even the 2 guys on 40s and buggies were pulling cable many times and said it was one of the hardest trails they’ve done. If I had hiked the trail first there’s no way I would have done it. But Im glad I did it now that I made it through because I had a ton of fun.
I broke a front inner axle shaft, steering box is puking oil, my wheels are not very round anymore. I finally found the limit of what I want to do but it was the most fun day ever. There were a lot of spots that I was not jealous of the width and wheelbase of the big rigs. Makes me want to keep my rig where it’s at. Here’s a few photos to entertain while I sort through footage. May be a while

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You're an animal. Looks like a blast!!! Keeping up with buggies on 40s is quite an accomplishment. Bet by the end of the trail, even with the break, you had the biggest smile knowing the little TJ was the underdog.

 

[starkey480]

You're an animal. Looks like a blast!!! Keeping up with buggies on 40s is quite an accomplishment. Bet by the end of the trail, even with the break, you had the biggest smile knowing the little TJ was the underdog.

I think I’m still smiling two days later. I want to go back with hydro assist which may be in the near future

 

[starkey480]

I've never seen a magnet work. We've welded flat blade skinny screwdrivers to jack tools to sneak past the cross pin and smack them out that way. Sometimes we have to get more creative. We had 3 winches holding the one below in place. I made a lasso with a slip knot out of a piece of 5/16" Dyneema so we could winch out the piece in that one. It broke in a really dumb place but twisted the splines and locked it into the side gear. View attachment 297782

That’s exactly the kind of spot mine broke in. Just a bunch of well placed small to medium sized boulders.

I don’t have video of it happening but this was the little section that did mine in. I still have very little experience with getting creative like that with field recovery and repair. I’m guessing desperation is a good motivator in that department.

 

[Irun]

I think I’m still smiling two days later. I want to go back with hydro assist which may be in the near future

I've now watched the video you posted several times. After watching it again last knight, it occurred to me that I've never seen a better example of using the armor to pivot the vehicle. Had that not happened, as seen in 0:34 to 0:52, things would have gone very differently. It was like watching TJ ballet!

Edit: I should also note the very good spotting and assistance to get through that particular obstacle!

 

[mrblaine]

That’s exactly the kind of spot mine broke in. Just a bunch of well placed small to medium sized boulders.
View attachment 297812
I don’t have video of it happening but this was the little section that did mine in. I still have very little experience with getting creative like that with field recovery and repair. I’m guessing desperation is a good motivator in that department.

Those rocks have a lot of traction in the right conditions. What kills front shafts with an astounding quickness is to put a tire on the front side down slope of one like that one in front of your left tire and hang the rear diff. The traction goes through the roof on that one and when it can't pull the rig off the diff hanger, something will break. It doesn't take long to learn not to spin tires. If you break the habit borne from driving the manual of spinning tires, you'll break far less stuff.

There was no desperation in that pic, just working through the problem.

 

[B00mb00m]

Those rocks have a lot of traction in the right conditions. What kills front shafts with an astounding quickness is to put a tire on the front side down slope of one like that one in front of your left tire and hang the rear diff. The traction goes through the roof on that one and when it can't pull the rig off the diff hanger, something will break. It doesn't take long to learn not to spin tires. If you break the habit borne from driving the manual of spinning tires, you'll break far less stuff.

There was no desperation in that pic, just working through the problem.

Ah that makes sense, our rocks here have far less traction even when it's dry. That's a good situation to keep in mind about tire slipping. I have a tendency to go till it slips because of the low traction.

 

[starkey480]

Those rocks have a lot of traction in the right conditions. What kills front shafts with an astounding quickness is to put a tire on the front side down slope of one like that one in front of your left tire and hang the rear diff. The traction goes through the roof on that one and when it can't pull the rig off the diff hanger, something will break. It doesn't take long to learn not to spin tires. If you break the habit borne from driving the manual of spinning tires, you'll break far less stuff.

There was no desperation in that pic, just working through the problem.

Exactly what happened. Your prediction accuracy is starting to get a little eerie

 

[starkey480]

I've now watched the video you posted several times. After watching it again last knight, it occurred to me that I've never seen a better example of using the armor to pivot the vehicle. Had that not happened, as seen in 0:34 to 0:52, things would have gone very differently. It was like watching TJ ballet!

Edit: I should also note the very good spotting and assistance to get through that particular obstacle!

Thank you! They were a fun bunch to go with. I should have the whole trail video finished this morning! It ended up being 30 minutes long so I’m trimming it down now lol

 

[mrblaine]

Exactly what happened. Your prediction accuracy is starting to get a little eerie

It will help you to understand the mechanical side of how torque works. If you have all the traction on one tire, the rear diff is hung and there is sand or air under the other front tire, you now have the ability to deliver nearly 100% of the torque to just one tire.

There are no Dana 30, Dana 44 axles and u-joints that will survive that much torque.

You have to learn what all the little clunks mean and use your memory map of the rocks under your rig to know if that clunk from a rock is on the tube, on the diff, on the steering, or on the belly skid. I've asked folks to peek under the rig and tell me how far the rock is up on the diff. Couple of inches? Yeah, no problem, I can bump over that. More than that, fix the line.

The second more important thing to learn is how to stop the front left from rising in a turn.

 

[Irun]

It will help you to understand the mechanical side of how torque works. If you have all the traction on one tire, the rear diff is hung and there is sand or air under the other front tire, you now have the ability to deliver nearly 100% of the torque to just one tire.

There are no Dana 30, Dana 44 axles and u-joints that will survive that much torque.

You have to learn what all the little clunks mean and use your memory map of the rocks under your rig to know if that clunk from a rock is on the tube, on the diff, on the steering, or on the belly skid. I've asked folks to peek under the rig and tell me how far the rock is up on the diff. Couple of inches? Yeah, no problem, I can bump over that. More than that, fix the line.

The second more important thing to learn is how to stop the front left from rising in a turn.

Does the longer shaft play in here? It seems like there would be more torsional stress on it due to the length.

 

[hosejockey61]

If you have all the traction on one tire, the rear diff is hung and there is sand or air under the other front tire, you now have the ability to deliver nearly 100% of the torque to just one tire.

There are no Dana 30, Dana 44 axles and u-joints that will survive that much torque.

@jjvw that's what happened on trough trail.

 

[jjvw]

@jjvw that's what happened on trough trail.

Pretty much. Both diffs were wedged. 2-3 tires on sand. Full steering lock. And frustration let me do more wheel spin than I normally do.

 

[mrblaine]

Pretty much. Both diffs were wedged. 2-3 tires on sand. Full steering lock. And frustration let me do more wheel spin than I normally do.

Spin tires, spend money.

 

[bobthetj03]

Does the longer shaft play in here? It seems like there would be more torsional stress on it due to the length.

That was my line of thought when I mentioned "leverage".