Basic wiring connector and terminal questions, product related

[machoheadgames]

Am I correct in assuming that you shipping them needing to be spliced is due to giving the customer options on how the side markers operate? Either that or you don’t have time to do all the crimping yourself? Perhaps both?

If it’s the former, I’d suggest offering the various side marker configurations on the site and just ship them crimped for the end user. Of course, you’d probably need a small inventory of each configuration in order to have them ready to ship.

But, I have a feeling that with how much else you do that is not related to tail lights, you probably don’t have time to crimp everyone’s lights for them.

To answer the actual question at hand, the best answer I can come up with is in agreeance with Lou - uninsulated splices and individual pieces of heat shrink. Would need to put big bold letters warning them not to forget the shrink before crimping, and would likely need to suggest a crimper and heat gun. Maybe throw in a few extra splices per kit just in case, and note that you included extra so folks aren’t confused when they do it right and end up with unused splices.

 

[Apparition]

To answer the actual question at hand, the best answer I can come up with is in agreeance with Lou - uninsulated splices and individual pieces of heat shrink. Would need to put big bold letters warning them not to forget the shrink before crimping, and would likely need to suggest a crimper and heat gun.

This and if people don’t like them or have another preference they can sub in what they prefer when they install them.

 

[mrblaine]

Am I correct in assuming that you shipping them needing to be spliced is due to giving the customer options on how the side markers operate? Either that or you don’t have time to do all the crimping yourself? Perhaps both?

If it’s the former, I’d suggest offering the various side marker configurations on the site and just ship them crimped for the end user. Of course, you’d probably need a small inventory of each configuration in order to have them ready to ship.

The side markers have to be installed before they are crimped and wired in. I can't pre wire without them being installed and I'm not doing that.

But, I have a feeling that with how much else you do that is not related to tail lights, you probably don’t have time to crimp everyone’s lights for them.

I do not, nor do I want to even if I did. I despise production work with a passion. I can figure out how to do stuff, figure out the processes to get it through production and any other aspect that doesn't involve tedious repetitive work. Once it gets to that point, I'm out.

To answer the actual question at hand, the best answer I can come up with is in agreeance with Lou - uninsulated splices and individual pieces of heat shrink. Would need to put big bold letters warning them not to forget the shrink before crimping, and would likely need to suggest a crimper and heat gun. Maybe throw in a few extra pieces of shrink per kit just in case, and note that you included extra so folks aren’t confused when they do it right and end up with unused pieces.

Have you used the very good butt connectors with heat shrink already on them that not even a caveman can screw up?

FYI- it wouldn't be heat shrink they need extra of, it would be the butt connectors.

 

[mrblaine]

This and if people don’t like them or have another preference they can sub in what they prefer when they install them.

Deal, I need your address to send you 500 feet of two sizes of heat shrink that I need cut up into 1.188" long pieces and returned to me please.

 

[machoheadgames]

The side markers have to be installed before they are crimped and wired in. I can't pre wire without them being installed and I'm not doing that.

I see. Did not know that.

I do not, nor do I want to even if I did. I despise production work with a passion. I can figure out how to do stuff, figure out the processes to get it through production and any other aspect that doesn't involve tedious repetitive work. Once it gets to that point, I'm out.

I figured as such and I don’t blame you.

Have you used the very good butt connectors with heat shrink already on them that not even a caveman can screw up?

FYI- it wouldn't be heat shrink they need extra of, it would be the butt connectors.

Yes, I have. They’re good, though I think folks would still need to be told what crimper to buy or at least be given a few suggestions.

Oopsie - you’re right. I was thinking backwards. I’ll fix it.

 

[Apparition]

Deal, I need your address to send you 500 feet of two sizes of heat shrink that I need cut up into 1.188" long pieces and returned to me please.

A heat shrink cutting machine might be a reasonable investment if you can’t buy them pre-cut.

 

[machoheadgames]

Personally, I think the bigger problem is that you have to rely on the average Jeep owner shoving 4 wires into one side of a splice successfully. The problem with heat shrink splice combos is that it can be difficult to see if the strands actually made it into the splice. Then you’re relying on folks with no experience in electrical to successfully perform that and then seal it properly.

There are some very small 2 or 3 pin round push-together connectors out there. In the Tacoma world they are referred to as “WP” connectors and I believe the lighting vendor VLEDS sells them. I wonder if there would be a way to neatly terminate each side marker to one of those ahead of time and then have a splitter harness that gets all 4 of them down to one connector that could then plug in to the rest of the tail light. That way the markers could be installed and removed as needed, and the end user splicing could be eliminated. But again, it becomes an extra labor on your side unless you could get a supplier to piece it together for you and sell to you in bulk. Probably not what you’re looking for.

People selling parts for my truck have been able to get companies to make harnesses for them which is where that idea comes from.

I’m not sure there is a perfect solution here, but the combo splices are probably the best bet so far based on what has been stated.

 

[psrivats]

There are some very small 2 or 3 pin round push-together connectors out there. In the Tacoma world they are referred to as “WP” connectors and I believe the lighting vendor VLEDS sells them.

This one?
https://www.vleds.com/duo-wp.html.html

I wonder if there would be a way to neatly terminate each side marker to one of those ahead of time and then have a splitter harness that gets all 4 of them down to one connector that could then plug in to the rest of the tail light.

I think the challenge is finding something that's not too bulky, waterproof and not overly expensive. And figuring out how to wire it up the way you describe without it being a giant time sink.

 

[machoheadgames]

This one?
https://www.vleds.com/duo-wp.html.html

Sort of, but that one is for splicing into an existing circuit such as wiring up resistors for LED turn signals. What I was thinking of is the “2P”. I thought they had 3 pin versions of what I was thinking of, but the 3 pin versions are connected together with threaded collars and it gets bulky, which is a big part of the problem already.

Here’s an example of what I was thinking of. They make splitters like this. If there was an easy way to put a female connector on each side marker, and then use a 1 to 4 splitter, it would make it easy to tie together. But again, time and effort on Blaine’s end to get there. And, this splitter is 2 pin anyways so that doesn’t work, and that big junction block in the middle will be bulky.

https://www.vleds.com/2-wp-y-adapter-5-output.html

I think the challenge is finding something that's not too bulky, waterproof and not overly expensive. And figuring out how to wire it up the way you describe without it being a giant time sink.

Agreed. I can see what he’s after, I just can’t think of a perfect solution to get there that covers every single issue. So far I do lean towards the heat shrink splices being the best bet, but there will still be some customer skill involved, especially when dealing with splicing 4 wires into one side of a splice.

 

[TheBoogieman]

Some people can screw up the easiest of jobs. No way around that. I was told a trained monkey could do my job. Then I took a month off for surgery and got over 100 complaints on their service. The monkey would have done a better job.

 

[MikeE024]

Im curious why you perceive this as a bad thing.
All printed circuit board terminations are soldered in small electronics

Why is it bad in your eyes for terminals?

You aren’t looking through the correct lens on this one imo. The general public usually doesn’t purchase products with circuit boards that they need to solder themselves.

Think apples to apples. Folks will mess up their soldering, or the connection could fail simply due to stress. Either way, Blaine would have to deal with it. He knows better. Soldering has its place…this ain’t it.

I was a wire jockey on Tomcats and Superhornets as a younger lad (fixing single-strand, twisted-pair, coax, twinax, triax, etc.)

I greatly prefer crimp-style heat-shrink butt connectors for their integrity and corrosion prevention properties.

Besides cost, corrosion prevention and integrity would be priority for the connector if I’m offering a lifetime warranty.

I sometimes overlay a butt connector with heat shrink tubing if I’m worried about stress relieving the butt connector or adding insulation for heat resistance. Doesn’t seem like that should be a concern for the tail light assembly.

 

[CreepinDeth]

Nice.

I typically use double crimp metripack 4 terminals for smaller gauge wires and Westherpack for larger range.

These have been in use for OEM for years with weatherproof rubbery seals on all terminations made within connector, and on wire inputs. I buy them in larger kits because its alot cheaper

I just liked to add a little solder in there for extra assurances. Theres a $30 handcrimper or the pricey ratcheting one

Likely will use these for my tail light LED swap because its an exposed to elements kinda thing

https://www.customconnectorkits.com...MItfe-i-jq_wIVXRKtBh0MMwwpEAQYAiABEgKnNPD_BwE

 

[TheBoogieman]

Theres a $30 handcrimper or the pricey ratcheting one

$30 is pricey to most that will use it once every 10 years (at most). I worked for Crutchfield installing car stereos, many years ago, so I got free stuff.

 

[CreepinDeth]

$30 is pricey to most that will use it once every 10 years (at most)..

I use mine quite frequently
Then again Im a car mod junkie

I think the general public once convinced to use modern era OEM and see their benefits in seals and reusabiliy (disconnect/connect) would see it as a small price to pay to “level up”. These things are built to last decades

But yeah, people are cheap usually

 

[TheBoogieman]

I use mine quite frequently
Then again Im a car mod junkie

I think the general public once convinced to use OEM and see their benefits in seals and reusabiliy (disconnect/connect) would see it as a small price to pay to “level up”. These things are built to last decades

But yeah, people are cheap usually

I used to use spring compressors often, to install 4" lifts on other people's Jeeps. I still wouldn't buy a set, since all auto parts stores rent them free.

 

[Mike_H]

Work thru the instructions, assuming butt splices with heat shrink are the thing. Relating my experience, I used to hate butt splices…they would always pull apart. Once I bought a decent set of crimping pliers, I haven’t had one fail, even the cheap garbage from Home Depot. So that is requirement number one…get some good pliers. Not the multi tool kind, with strippers, crimps, and cutters all in one. Something like these Klein pliers

Then you have to be able to describe, and ideally show a picture, of the correct orientation for the crimp barrel and which part of the pliers to use. I’ve never had good luck with the “insulated” part of the pliers. Only the section with the pointy end works for me.

Now think about failures. First…using the pointy end will probably allow ham fisted, caveman, hammer mechanics like me to over crimp, possibly breaking wires but more likely piercing the heat shrink. Next, we have the user not orienting the barrel properly and splitting the connector. Another, If you can over crimp, then you can under crimp just as easily. That can be two fold, right? Not enough pressure on the handles or using the incorrect section of the pliers.

How else will the average dude screw up? You’ll get calls about people not getting all four wires spliced into one barrel. Either they’ll forget one, or they won’t get them together properly, and one will pull out, post crimp.

You’ll get calls from the guy that used different pliers that’s what are specified. Either the wireflys above with the wrong die set or the cheap stamped steel crap that they sell everywhere, because it’s what they have.

You’ll also get calls from people who over cook the heat shrink. Can the wires handle way more heat than the heat shrink without melting insulation? Is there enough wire in the package to cut the whole mess off and try again?

I think you can write instructions to cover those situations. I don’t think the average guy, buying taillights for his Jeep, will understand why all that stuff in the instructions is important. Can you spell all that out too? You can…but are people going to read it?

Maybe a video with a link (scan the qr code) in the package? Then you could demonstrate some of the failures and how to keep them from happening.

 

[Apparition]

Nice.

I typically use double crimp metripack 4 terminals for smaller gauge wires and Westherpack for larger range.

These have been in use for OEM for years with weatherproof rubbery seals on all terminations made within connector, and on wire inputs. I buy them in larger kits because its alot cheaper

I just liked to add a little solder in there for extra assurances. Theres a $30 handcrimper or the pricey ratcheting one

Likely will use these for my tail light LED swap because its an exposed to elements kinda thing

[URL]https://www.customconnectorkit...MItfe-i-jq_wIVXRKtBh0MMwwpEAQYAiABEgKnNPD_BwE[/URL]

Why you no Deutsch?

 

[mrblaine]

Why you no Deutsch?

Cost mainly, and I've got a lot invested in Weatherpack with hundreds of seals, pins, sockets, and 1-6 pin connector shells. Deutsch is a far better connector for what we do now though.

 

[Mhass]

Like many, I've used every connector solution from twisting wires under the dash and wrapping it with scotch tape and promising myself I'd fix it later, to replacing entire harnesses. The scotch tape never failed while I owned it but no way I'd do that now. Thr truth is, even a mediocre connection has low odds of failure unless directly stressed.
My go to is an insulated waterproof heat shrink connector.
I am now comfortable using any quality solution.
Your target consumer is buying a quality part to produce an intentional upgrade, MOST of them will produce a reasonably dependable connection with a quality insulated butt splice. The ones who don't are gonna fail with any solution you provide because you can't engineer stupidity and shit work out of people.
I see this regularly with engineering solutions we deliver to ships all the time. They're U.S. Navy electronics products. We try to engineer the stupidity out of them but there's still the occasional idiot that manages to outmatch our assessment of how stupid a sailor can be.
You're overthinking this- how would YOU do it?
Give em those parts.

 

[Apparition]

Cost mainly, and I've got a lot invested in Weatherpack with hundreds of seals, pins, sockets, and 1-6 pin connector shells. Deutsch is a far better connector for what we do now though.

Question wasn't geared towards you. Creepin wanted the best.

I'm using Deutsch now and wish I'd have switched sooner. I used weatherpacks on the blue jeep with no complaints they do work but deutsch is better to work with.