Basic wiring connector and terminal questions, product related

[mrblaine]

You're overthinking this- how would YOU do it?
Give em those parts.

It only looks like I'm overthinking it. I've been selling parts to folks for a long time so I am very aware of everything that can be done incorrectly and how difficult is to design the dumb out of stuff. This thread is to also give me some insight into how folks think about stuff and that is invaluable.

Two things are required to make a quality connection, good crimpers which I can easily provide a picture of and a decent heat source preferably in the form of a heat gun that the owner is familiar with so they don't wind up with a nicely shrunk bit of tubing and the insulation melted off the wire.

My biggest issue is that the high quality heat shrink crimp connectors take a lot of heat to melt the adhesive and shrink the tube.

All that said, the best part of this whole mess is the lack of recommendations for the 4 cent apiece shrink and solder butt connectors that are so prevalent nowadays. That thrills me to no end.











The other side of it is a small attempt to educate folks about the difficulties in trying to get something into the hands of the average consumer and not put the onus on them to solve all the problems.

 

[mrblaine]

Question wasn't geared towards you. Creepin wanted the best.

Then he needs to be using Deutsch.

I'm using Deutsch now and wish I'd have switched sooner. I used weatherpacks on the blue jeep with no complaints they do work but deutsch is better to work with.

I think a lot more folks would switch if they made it easier to understand which pins and sockets go together with which shells. If you don't know anything about them, they are a bit daunting to figure out.

 

[Apparition]

I think a lot more folks would switch if they made it easier to understand which pins and sockets go together with which shells. If you don't know anything about them, they are a bit daunting to figure out.

Very true, there's still a lot for me to learn and I've been studying it.

 

[mrblaine]

A heat shrink cutting machine might be a reasonable investment if you can’t buy them pre-cut.

Not really, I only have 500 feet of two sizes I need cut up. I can easily buy them pre-cut, that isn't the problem. Buying them pre-cut, the right length, in a suitable material that works well at the correct price point is the problem.

 

[machoheadgames]

I think a lot more folks would switch if they made it easier to understand which pins and sockets go together with which shells. If you don't know anything about them, they are a bit daunting to figure out.

Agreed, it can be confusing and it's also sometimes difficult to tell where you can get authentic deutsch parts from and not lookalikes. Also, Deutsch stuff is fucking expensive to continuously use which makes me on the fence about using them. They are the best, but it kills me when I need to pay another $50-100 in various parts that will nickel and dime me to death and won't last all that long in a project with more than a few connections.

 

[mrblaine]

Agreed, it can be confusing and it's also sometimes difficult to tell where you can get authentic deutsch parts from and not lookalikes. Also, Deutsch stuff is fucking expensive to continuously use which makes me on the fence about using them. They are the best, but it kills me when I need to pay another $50-100 in various parts that will nickel and dime me to death and won't last all that long in a project with more than a few connections.

It's hard to set a grand in Weatherpack on the top shelf and switch it over to 3 grand in Deutsch to get the same number of parts.

 

[machoheadgames]

It's hard to set a grand in Weatherpack on the top shelf and switch it over to 3 grand in Deutsch to get the same number of parts.

Yep. My numbers are on a lot smaller scale than that and it still hurts. I don't have anything stocked, I pretty much buy as I need. I'd like to buy extra terminals and such but that really makes the purchase expensive. Similar to when I load up on splices and terminals at DelCity. Wiring in general is just a bitch to buy parts for.

 

[CreepinDeth]

Why you no Deutsch?

Im vested in Delphi at this point
Keeps it simple with all 3 toy vehicles

However Im open to new ideas so I will look into it, thanks

 

[Lou]

Genuine deutsch pins and connectors are expensive but Amphenol makes a complete line of deutsch connectors that are much cheaper and still of the highest quality.

Instead of DTM, DT, and DTP they go by ATM, AT, and ATP.

Do not buy the crappy connector kits on Amazon.

 

[Mike_H]

Your target consumer is buying a quality part to produce an intentional upgrade, MOST of them will produce a reasonably dependable connection with a quality insulated butt splice. The ones who don't are gonna fail with any solution you provide because you can't engineer stupidity and shit work out of people.

When I was a manufacturing engineer at a tier 1 auto supplier, I came up with a saying...

"My job is to make things idiot proof. I have perfect job security, because HR is ALWAYS able to find me a better idiot."

 

[psrivats]

Genuine deutsch pins and connectors are expensive but Amphenol makes a complete line of deutsch connectors that are much cheaper and still of the highest quality.

Instead of DTM, DT, and DTP they go by ATM, AT, and ATP.

Do not buy the crappy connector kits on Amazon.

Amphenol is who we used in my research laboratory for some of the specialized RF connectors back in school days. Expensive but very high quality parts.

 

[Lou]

Dtm06-4s $2.59

Atm06-4s $1.38

 

[Dr. Internet]

It only looks like I'm overthinking it. I've been selling parts to folks for a long time so I am very aware of everything that can be done incorrectly and how difficult is to design the dumb out of stuff. This thread is to also give me some insight into how folks think about stuff and that is invaluable.

Two things are required to make a quality connection, good crimpers which I can easily provide a picture of and a decent heat source preferably in the form of a heat gun that the owner is familiar with so they don't wind up with a nicely shrunk bit of tubing and the insulation melted off the wire.

My biggest issue is that the high quality heat shrink crimp connectors take a lot of heat to melt the adhesive and shrink the tube.

All that said, the best part of this whole mess is the lack of recommendations for the 4 cent apiece shrink and solder butt connectors that are so prevalent nowadays. That thrills me to no end.











The other side of it is a small attempt to educate folks about the difficulties in trying to get something into the hands of the average consumer and not put the onus on them to solve all the problems.

Here's a couple of other approaches. Don't just sell the parts, sell solutions:
1. DIY — send the lamps, connectors, heat shrink and picture instructions. Explain that if the user messes up, it is on him. Discount price.
2. Talented but tool-less — Same as DIY, but include the crimping tool, heat shrink gun, and detailed instructions. Charge an extra $200 to be refunded when the tools are returned. Include an idiot proof mailer.
3. Hands-off — partner up with someone national, like 4-Wheel, U-Haul, Discount Tire, Midas, NTB - someplace that has some level of proficiency. They must have the correct tools and be certified by you to install your stuff. They carry the warranty on their work. They charge whatever they want to. They have to buy from you.

Good Luck!

 

[bucky]

Most circuit boards do not see a lot of extreme vibration to make the solder joint fail. Those that do are encased with an epoxy to prevent damage. Proper zip tying can reduce vibration. I did a lot of electronic work back in the day and if you use proper technique the solder will not wick up too far on the wire. I find that I have more issues caused by chafed wire. I try to use wire loom whenever I can to prevent this. I’m fortunate and I have a good electronics parts store nearby. Most guys just do not pay the extra money on quality electronic parts or they do not have access to them.

 

[Apparition]

Most circuit boards do not see a lot of extreme vibration to make the solder joint fail. Those that do are encased with an epoxy to prevent damage. Proper zip tying can reduce vibration. I did a lot of electronic work back in the day and if you use proper technique the solder will not wick up too far on the wire. I find that I have more issues caused by chafed wire. I try to use wire loom whenever I can to prevent this. I’m fortunate and I have a good electronics parts store nearby. Most guys just do not pay the extra money on quality electronic parts or they do not have access to them.

Am I the only person who had to pull the dash out of one of my vehicles (not Jeep) and fix solder connections in order to get the odometer to work?

 

[CreepinDeth]

Am I the only person who had to pull the dash out of one of my vehicles (not Jeep) and fix solder connections in order to get the odometer to work?

Ive got a 1970 Olds 442 that I restored my gauges on, and out in 194 LEDs in, and even I never saw that. Crazy, was it exposed to alot of salty air??

my Jeep is only 20-21 years old and my headlight pigtail harness was soooo massively corroded and falling apart. Crimps were toast, had to redo them

 

[Apparition]

Ive got a 1970 Olds 442 that I restored my gauges on, and out in 194 LEDs in, and even I never saw that. Crazy, was it exposed to alot of salty air??

my Jeep is only 20-21 years old and my headlight pigtail harness was soooo massively corroded and falling apart. Crimps were toast, had to redo them

2000 F150 similar to this, Ford would fix it via replacement and taking $1000 worth of your money.

 

[CreepinDeth]

Yeah thats a hard and tiny one, that sucks

I like to replace entire vehicle harnesses on anything really old because its simpler in the longrun Vs chasin electrical gremlins from cracks and corrosion

Im scared to see what all the Jeep grounds look like now

 

[psrivats]

Im scared to see what all the Jeep grounds look like now

Your username is a good indicator probably

 

[SSTJ]

A product should be thought through with consideration as to the abilities of the installer and care given to make that reasonably simple. Our tail light has to be contrived to be plug and play since I fully despise having to undo wiring to remove something. That means you have to be able to unplug the tail light panel from the housing and rig and then from the marker lights that are embedded in the housing.

My question is what butt connector are folks the most comfortable with that has enough quality that it won't come back later and bite me on the ass hard? We use crimp heat shrink versions that are very high quality and while I have no issues with them ever failing, I've seen enough owner done wiring that I don't fully trust everyone to make them work. Most won't have the proper crimpers or a heat gun to shrink the tube and melt the adhesive properly.

There will be 4 22 gauge wires into one side, the other side will be a single 22 or 20 depending on the day.

That has to be done 3 times to connect up to the connectors that unplug. There is a 2 pin male and female connector and a 3 pin male and female. The 2 pin powers up the license plate light if used. The 3 pin powers up the side marker lights, both of those go into the light side of the factory style plug we sourced so it plugs right into the tub harness like the OEM does and you don't have to cut the plugs off of your existing lights.

A couple of alternates are the solder seal style but they seem to live in two categories, the very questionable quality all over eBay and Amazon which I find to be suspect at best or the quality verisons which are expensive at .75 each and we need 6 of them.

There are also the snap seal 3M type but they jump way up to 3 bucks each and that's not gonna happen.

What are you comfortable using with good instructions??

I haven't read all of this thread yet, but seeing this post makes me wonder what you think about the recommendations that you made here a while back.

Are you still a fan of Del City? Or are you just not finding what you need there?