Breaker panel labeling

[red02tj]

I need to label my breaker panel, when we had a second AC/Heat pump put in, they added main disconnects and a new case, but somehow “lost” the breaker labels. I’m planning to buy https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08VWCSG7G?tag=wranglerorg-20 since I’ve got late 70s construction with the old school outlets controlled by light switches. Any recommendations for a better tool and way to make it not take all day?

 

[B1Toad]

Yes, the easiest fastest way is instead of switching one circuit off and looking for dead stuff, turn them all off and switch one on at a time and look for live stuff. Pick up a plug in lamp holder and screw a bulb in to quickly check wall outlets. Your general use circuits will be loaded with too much to list everything next to the breaker so if you want to get super detailed you'll have to print out a paper with everything on it and the circuit number.

The dedicated circuits will be easy, kitchen counter plugs usually 2 20 amp circuits which will include the dining outlet(s), dishwashers and disposals 20 amp, laundry plug(s) another 20, furnace 20, So start with those. They should not have any lighting on them.

All the rest like bdrm LR outlets and all lighting will be on 15s (unless someone did some hackerty) and if your house is still original the bath plugs will be on a 15 amp general Lighting" circuit and will include any outdoor outlets or garage outlet on the same GFCI. (Newer houses after about 1994 will have a 20 amp circuit just for the bath plugs, nothing else on it.)
2 pole 30's are for clothes dryers, wall ovens, cooktops, electric water heaters and some ACs. 2 pole 50s are for electric ranges and big AC units.

I wouldn't invest in the circuit finder unless you do this day in and day out, a light bulb and a helper is all you need. It's all we ever used when labeling a new panel after a service upgrade, we could do it in about 10-15 minutes. It was at the end if the day, one guy switch a breaker on then come inside and help locate the circuit while the other guy carried a clip board to write everything down then the helper would run out and switch another one and repeat. Of course being in the trade we already knew, or had a pretty good idea, which breakers were likely for certain things.

On the older homes where there is only a few 15 amp general lighting and receptacle circuits we would label them "lights and plugs east half" or "east and middle bdrms" etc. If you want everything identified for future work take a sharpie and remove the wall plate and write the circuit number on the inside of the wall plate.

If you want to get real efficient put some blue tape on each outlet and switch as you discover them to avoid confusion.

 

[TerryD]

You can get a tool that plugs into an outlet and has a detector you run over the breakers. Usually works well enough. Occasionally it might back feed and light up on a couple nearby breakers on the same leg.

 

[B1Toad]

You can get a tool that plugs into an outlet and has a detector you run over the breakers. Usually works well enough. Occasionally it might back feed and light up on a couple nearby breakers on the same leg.

You can get a screamer too for one man work, it's handy for trying to kill a circuit without walking back and forth a million times. Not so handy for labeling a panel though. The circuit finder in the first post is handy for working on occupied buildings when you don't want to be shutting off breaker after breaker and crashing people's computers.

 

[B1Toad]

If you post a photo of your panel showing the breakers and the model number I'll explain how the circuit numbers work

 

[red02tj]

If you post a photo of your panel showing the breakers and the model number I'll explain how the circuit numbers work

 

[B1Toad]

So that's a GE 32/40 which means 32 spaces 40 circuits possible. To get the extra 8 circuits the bottom 8 stabs can take twins. As you can see on the diagram the bottom 8 are marked A&B in case you put twins there. Since there are no twins now it's a moot point but if you ever want to expand you will need to label them A&B which makes the labeling even more cramped.

The diagram also shows the correct sequence which is all the odds on the left and all the evens on the right. Some people don't notice that and just write the numbers on their labels in the order they think they should be in which confuses electricians who go by the standard.

Also the 3 Square D breakers on the bottom right are not supposed to be in there, A GE panel is supposed to get GE breakers only, no other brand. It's actually an NEC code violation section 110.3(B) because it is not allowed by the manufacturer of the panel.

 

[red02tj]

So that's a GE 32/40 which means 32 spaces 40 circuits possible. To get the extra 8 circuits the bottom 8 stabs can take twins. As you can see on the diagram the bottom 8 are marked A&B in case you put twins there. Since there are no twins now it's a moot point but if you ever want to expand you will need to label them A&B which makes the labeling even more cramped.

The diagram also shows the correct sequence which is all the odds on the left and all the evens on the right. Some people don't notice that and just write the numbers on their labels in the order they think they should be in which confuses electricians who go by the standard.

Also the 3 Square D breakers on the bottom right are not supposed to be in there, A GE panel is supposed to get GE breakers only, no other brand. It's actually an NEC code violation section 110.3(B) because it is not allowed by the manufacturer of the panel.

Thank you, I definitely would have missed the numbering sequence. Are the non GE breakers something I can replace or do I need an electrician?

 

[bucky]

I just use a basic plug in circuit tester. I label with a P-touch label maker. I also use the label maker to document when oil changes were done and label in the engine compartment the size of the drain plug, oil capacity and when parts were replaced. I get my label makers and label refills at Costco.

 

[B1Toad]

Thank you, I definitely would have missed the numbering sequence. Are the non GE breakers something I can replace or do I need an electrician?

You can replace them if you're comfortable working in a panel. They just push onto the bus. It's easier to install the wire and tighten the screw first then put the breaker on the bus. You hook the heel of the breaker on the outside rail then press the inner side onto the stab.

 

[B1Toad]

If you look real close the numbers are stamped into the metal next to each space/breaker.

 

[bucky]

Thank you, I definitely would have missed the numbering sequence. Are the non GE breakers something I can replace or do I need an electrician?

Breakers are easy to replace. Turn off the main breaker but be careful because the is still power in the panel. Pull one at a time. Make sure you tighten the screw thoroughly and retighten them after all breakers are replaced. Since you have a 70s home you might have aluminum wires. If so and anti-oxidizer must be used. YouTube is your friend.

 

[Zorba]

Goddess help you if you have aluminum wire... BTDTGTTSGOO...

 

[bucky]

In the early 80s I worked as an electrician in LA County. I was assigned to a multi-unit condo project that failed the final electrical inspection. Turned out that aluminum wire was used instead of copper in approximately 12 units. Why it wasn’t caught before final and who fucked up was above my pay grade. My crew had to replace every wire over several weeks. Someone took a huge financial hit.

 

[red02tj]

Found my inspection report, no aluminum.

Circuit Wiring Type:
The home is wired using plastic insulated cable with copper wires, commonly referred to as Romex.

 

[B1Toad]

In the early 80s I worked as an electrician in LA County. I was assigned to a multi-unit condo project that failed the final electrical inspection. Turned out that aluminum wire was used instead of copper in approximately 12 units. Why it wasn’t caught before final and who fucked up was above my pay grade. My crew had to replace every wire over several weeks. Someone took a huge financial hit.

LA must have their own code or code amendment. Aluminum wiring has never been prohibited by code.Branch circuit solid aluminum NM has not been available since the late 70,s and even by about 1975 nobody was using it. Somebody must have had an old stash to be using it in the 80's. Aluminum in larger sizes for feeders and dedicated circuits is used all the time today with no issues, does LA allow that?

Here's a little trivia on solid aluminum branch circuit wiring :

For the most part it's period of use in the US coincides with the US involvement in Viet Nam, 1965-1975. It was used because of the high price of copper combined with a housing boom.

The first formula manufactured from 1965-1972 was AA-1350 which is the bad stuff. The alloys were not perfected and there were failures and fires. A lot of that was due to improper techniques and using parts not compatible with AL.

By the time they perfected the alloys it was too late, the fires had already happened and nobody wanted it after that. However as noted above the new formula products are still widely used today in larger size stranded wires (AWG 6 and larger) with no issues. A lot of folks don't even realize they have it. It's all the power company uses as well.

 

[B1Toad]

We have a large residential complex here that was converted from apartments to condos, built around 1974. Aluminum wiring and Federal Pacific Stab-Lok panels. It doesn't get much scarier than that! My helper lived there and I'd go pick him up every day, I remember seeing at least 2 burned out units waiting for renovation, you could see the smoke stains up the side of the building from the windows.

 

[Zorba]

We purchased a brand new 24x60 mobile home in 1970 - it was a left over 1969 model. It was a "Golden West", a very good make. It had the aluminum wiring. At least two receptacles burned up before my electrician father went through the whole home and put copper tails on everything. Never had an further problems, and its still there, so it hasn't burned down!