"Ro-ro", like this? Must be some more green-climate BS.
On a serious note, where did you pull that info from?
Bridge collapsed
- Thread starter mxz800
- Start date
"Ro-ro", like this? Must be some more green-climate BS.
On a serious note, where did you pull that info from?
Those guys definitely saved lives.
When I was at Seagirt, there was a group of Longshoremen called “Lashers.” These guys climbed the stacks on container ships lashing containers to the one below to secure it. (Lashes are long steel rods which criss-cross the ends of containers as part of the retention system).
The Lashers crawl around the stack while the automated gantry cranes load 40 ft, 40 ton containers - crazy fast. I’ve been on a container ship while being loaded. It’s intense. The Lashers occasionally got crushed.
These guys were tough, and definitely earned every dollar they were paid. And they were paid well.
In winter, ships would come in off the North Atlantic routes covered in ice. The Lashers would still have to climb to release the containers. Once every year or two one would slip and fall from the stack into the water to his death. The top stack on a big container ship can be 100-150 feet off the water.
I remember the first time this happened while I was there in the 80’s. The head of the terminal told me they would not find the guys body until spring.
He was right. It happened this way nearly every time.
He told me that In the cold water, the body goes down, gets into the mud, and stays there nearly preserved. In the spring, the water warms up, the body starts to decompose, and the gasses bring it to the surface.
I hope these six guys don’t suffer the same fate. Perhaps given the circumstance and the intense search effort they will be brought home soon.
When I was doing SCUBA, one of my instructors does local rescue/body recovery, and he told me similar, but the water needs to be refrigerator cold or less. There's still hope for the missing bridge guys, but time is of the essence.
Definitely has happened in the past in the bay when someone goes over in cold water, they don’t surface until warmer water. Agree, hope not the case here but very likely.
https://abc7news.com/amp/francis-scott-key-bridge-baltimore-collapse-how-many-died-in/14576300/
An elite Coast Guard team is examining 13 damaged containers from the crashed vessel, "An elite Coast Guard team is examining 13 damaged containers from the crashed vessel, "some with Centers for Disease Control and Prevention [CDC] and/or hazardous materials [HAZMAT] contents," the CISA memo said. The team is also analyzing the ship's manifest to determine what was on board and if any materials could pose a health risk, the source said.some with Centers for Disease Control and Prevention [CDC] and/or hazardous materials [HAZMAT] contents," the CISA memo said. The team is also analyzing the ship's manifest to determine what was on board and if any materials could pose a health risk, the source said.
An elite Coast Guard team is examining 13 damaged containers from the crashed vessel, "An elite Coast Guard team is examining 13 damaged containers from the crashed vessel, "some with Centers for Disease Control and Prevention [CDC] and/or hazardous materials [HAZMAT] contents," the CISA memo said. The team is also analyzing the ship's manifest to determine what was on board and if any materials could pose a health risk, the source said.some with Centers for Disease Control and Prevention [CDC] and/or hazardous materials [HAZMAT] contents," the CISA memo said. The team is also analyzing the ship's manifest to determine what was on board and if any materials could pose a health risk, the source said.
Dali's black box contents will be published today, NTSB chair says, which could help answer why ship crashed into Baltimore's Key Bridge and caused it to collapse
The reason a Dali cargo ship crashed into Baltimore's Key Bridge and caused a catastrophic collapse may be revealed later today.
Officials say they have recovered the doomed freight's black box from the wreckage, as National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) Chair Jennifer Homendy said it might provide answers.
'From the data, we hope to develop a timeline of events that led up to the striking of the bridge,' she told CBS Good Morning. 'We hope to have that later today.'
Homendy said the black box may be the key to understanding the accident, which had bewildered experts and led to slew of conspiracy theories online.
'(The data) will provide us with a number of parameters, everything from location to positioning of the ship to speed, you name it,' she said.
'We'll pull that together to make sure we have a very accurate timeline of what occurred. We'll be able to see any sort of power loss, and will be able to report that later today.'
Officials were quick to rule out the catastrophe as intentional or an act of terrorism, and an early Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency (CISA) report found the container ship 'lost propulsion' as it was leaving port.
'The vessel notified MD Department of Transportation (MDOT) that they had lost control of the vessel and an allision with the bridge was possible,' the report said. 'The vessel struck the bridge causing a complete collapse.'
Horrifying footage captured the moment the ship careened into the bridge's support beam, resulting in the huge structure crumbling into the Patapsco River within a matter of seconds.
Observers were quick to note that the ship's exterior lights went out twice in the moments before impact, suggesting the vessel may have suffered some form of mechanical failure.
Homendy was questioned over this possibility on Wednesday morning, as she also dismissed reports that officials were looking into contaminated fuel as a culprit.
'We've heard the reports, but that's way too early for us, we have a lot of information we are gathering,' she said. 'We'll certainly look at that as part of our investigation.'
Questions have swirled since the catastrophe as to how the ship was allowed to cause such an accident, and why the bridge collapsed as easily as it appeared to.
Homendy noted that the NTSB will work to provide recommendations as to how to avoid a similar incident happening again in the future.
'That's exactly what our highway team will look at,' she said, as they will probe questions including: 'What work was being done on the bridge?'
Hours after the bridge's collapse, it emerged that the cargo ship was being piloted by a specialized crew trained to avoid obstacles at ports.
When asked why the pilots didn't navigate the ship until it was clear in open waters, Homendy said that it would be taken into account in the NTSB assessment as she vowed to 'look at everything.'
'We will conduct a very thorough, comprehensive, holistic investigation, everything from maintenance to even fire rescue operations,' she said, adding that protocols for bodies such as the US Coast Guard will also come under scrutiny.
'Our sole goal here on scene is to collect the perishable evidence and identify person who we will want to interview as part of our investigation.'
Officials have repeatedly said rebuilding the bridge - which was used by over 30,000 vehicles every day - will take hundreds of millions of dollars and take a significant amount of time.
As the ship falls under federal scrutiny, a CNN review of records from the Electronic Quality Shipping Information System (Equasis) found it had previously been found to be faulty by inspectors.
The Dali container ship had undergone 27 inspections since 2015, and it had been found to have two 'deficiencies.'
Notably, this included a June 2023 inspection in San Antonio, Chile, where a deficiency was found in the 'propulsion and auxiliary machinery' - with propulsion faults also noted in the early CISA report.
The Dali was also involved in a 2016 incident at the Port of Antwerp. A review in November of that year in Antwerp, Belgium found another 'deficiency' in its 'structural conditions.'
No deficiencies were found when the vessel was last inspected on September 9, 2023 by the US Coast Guard in New York.
Link
The reason a Dali cargo ship crashed into Baltimore's Key Bridge and caused a catastrophic collapse may be revealed later today.
Officials say they have recovered the doomed freight's black box from the wreckage, as National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) Chair Jennifer Homendy said it might provide answers.
'From the data, we hope to develop a timeline of events that led up to the striking of the bridge,' she told CBS Good Morning. 'We hope to have that later today.'
Homendy said the black box may be the key to understanding the accident, which had bewildered experts and led to slew of conspiracy theories online.
'(The data) will provide us with a number of parameters, everything from location to positioning of the ship to speed, you name it,' she said.
'We'll pull that together to make sure we have a very accurate timeline of what occurred. We'll be able to see any sort of power loss, and will be able to report that later today.'
Officials were quick to rule out the catastrophe as intentional or an act of terrorism, and an early Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency (CISA) report found the container ship 'lost propulsion' as it was leaving port.
'The vessel notified MD Department of Transportation (MDOT) that they had lost control of the vessel and an allision with the bridge was possible,' the report said. 'The vessel struck the bridge causing a complete collapse.'
Horrifying footage captured the moment the ship careened into the bridge's support beam, resulting in the huge structure crumbling into the Patapsco River within a matter of seconds.
Observers were quick to note that the ship's exterior lights went out twice in the moments before impact, suggesting the vessel may have suffered some form of mechanical failure.
Homendy was questioned over this possibility on Wednesday morning, as she also dismissed reports that officials were looking into contaminated fuel as a culprit.
'We've heard the reports, but that's way too early for us, we have a lot of information we are gathering,' she said. 'We'll certainly look at that as part of our investigation.'
Questions have swirled since the catastrophe as to how the ship was allowed to cause such an accident, and why the bridge collapsed as easily as it appeared to.
Homendy noted that the NTSB will work to provide recommendations as to how to avoid a similar incident happening again in the future.
'That's exactly what our highway team will look at,' she said, as they will probe questions including: 'What work was being done on the bridge?'
Hours after the bridge's collapse, it emerged that the cargo ship was being piloted by a specialized crew trained to avoid obstacles at ports.
When asked why the pilots didn't navigate the ship until it was clear in open waters, Homendy said that it would be taken into account in the NTSB assessment as she vowed to 'look at everything.'
'We will conduct a very thorough, comprehensive, holistic investigation, everything from maintenance to even fire rescue operations,' she said, adding that protocols for bodies such as the US Coast Guard will also come under scrutiny.
'Our sole goal here on scene is to collect the perishable evidence and identify person who we will want to interview as part of our investigation.'
Officials have repeatedly said rebuilding the bridge - which was used by over 30,000 vehicles every day - will take hundreds of millions of dollars and take a significant amount of time.
As the ship falls under federal scrutiny, a CNN review of records from the Electronic Quality Shipping Information System (Equasis) found it had previously been found to be faulty by inspectors.
The Dali container ship had undergone 27 inspections since 2015, and it had been found to have two 'deficiencies.'
Notably, this included a June 2023 inspection in San Antonio, Chile, where a deficiency was found in the 'propulsion and auxiliary machinery' - with propulsion faults also noted in the early CISA report.
The Dali was also involved in a 2016 incident at the Port of Antwerp. A review in November of that year in Antwerp, Belgium found another 'deficiency' in its 'structural conditions.'
No deficiencies were found when the vessel was last inspected on September 9, 2023 by the US Coast Guard in New York.
Link
"Ro-ro", like this? Must be some more green-climate BS.
View attachment 512673
On a serious note, where did you pull that info from?
It was reasonably common knowledge in the tin can community because we had to escort the civilian ro-ro ships into port, and escort the convoys to Europe for the support of NATO. Soviet Naval Air Assets and Submarine forces were / are non-trivial then as now. The tin can I was on was configured as an outside radar picket. We had SONAR as well. Our life expectancy once the battle started was two and a half minutes. We could expend a full weapons load out in three minutes under those circumstances. As an Engineer in the engine room, the chances of me surviving my first engagement at sea under those circumstances approached zero percent. It was, ah, an occasional topic of serious discussion.
| Construction crew would have been on a break and in their trucks when Baltimore's Key Bridge collapsed says colleague as first two workers presumed dead are named as father-of-six Miguel Luna, 49, and dad-of-two Maynor Suazo, 37 Luna lived in the United States for the past 19 years, Suazo for 18 years. Both were fathers The six construction crew members, thrown into the frigid waters of the Patapsco River when a container ship collided with the bridge they were working on, were on their break when the tragedy occurred. Miguel Luna, 49, originally of El Salvador and Maynor Suazo, 37, originally of Honduras were on the graveyard shift with the rest of their Hispanic crew when the Dali ship lost propulsion and caused the collapse of the iconic Francis Scott Key Bridge in Baltimore. Luna lived in the United States for the past 19 years, Suazo for 18 years. Both are fathers. A member of their team who happened to not be working in the early hours of Tuesday, Jesus Campos, said that his colleagues were on their meal break likely inside one of the service trucks at the time of the crash. Campos paid tribute to his friends in an interview with The New York Times, saying that most in the job were sending money to relatives in their homelands. The group all worked for a company named Brawner. 'They were wonderful family people. Spouses, children. It's just a very, very bad day,' said Brawner executive Jeffrey Pritzker. The company regularly does upkeep on historical buildings such as the Key Bridge and were fixing potholes on Tuesday. The first of the six: Miguel Luna, 49, was the first missing construction worker identified following the collapse Maynor Suazo, 37, a native of Honduras has been named as the other man missing and presumed dead 'They only tell us that we have to wait, that for now, they can't give us information. [We feel] devastated, devastated because our heart is broken, because we don't know if they've rescued them yet. We're just waiting to hear any news,' Luna's wife, Maria del Carmen Castellon told Telemundo 44. Suazo, a native of Honduras, was identified in his homeland as another worker who is missing and presumed to be dead. Suazo, a father of two, had been living in the US for the past 18 years. Guatemala's consulate in Maryland said in a statement that two of the missing were citizens of the Central American nation. It did not provide their names but said consular officials were in contact with authorities and assisting the families. Mexican officials have said that some of their citizens are missing but did not say how many. Maynor Suazo's brother, Martin, told Honduran television that his brother was a native of Santa Barbara, in the western part of the country, Martin said that his brother emigrated in order to 'improve the quality of his life.' Martin said that he plans to travel to the United States in order to repatriate his brother's remains. In a separate interview with CNN, Martin confirmed that Suazo is survived by his son, 18, and daughter, five. In that interview, Martin reiterated his brother's desire for a better life in the US and said that he had also started his own maintenance company. 'Maynor Suazo was a guy with warmth, quality of people, entrepreneur with a vision and mission to serve our community,' a family friend wrote in a touching Facebook tribute. More |
If they were on break, they were likely sitting loose inside the truck(s) when it plunged. Between the sudden cold shock and the potential of being knocked out during the fall, I'd guess all drowned at this point.
If they were on break, they were likely sitting loose inside the truck(s) when it plunged. Between the sudden cold shock and the potential of being knocked out during the fall, I'd guess all drowned at this point.
That's my thoughts on it. Horrible.
This guy has a good summary. And other videos about it.
It sounds like they dropped an anchor and tried to slow it down when the engines restarted. Which moved it off course into the bridge. They may have been better off letting it drift unpowered but on course and going under the bridge.
It sounds like they dropped an anchor and tried to slow it down when the engines restarted. Which moved it off course into the bridge. They may have been better off letting it drift unpowered but on course and going under the bridge.
Each green dot is a large container ship or tanker stuck in the Chesapeake Bay, unable to enter the Port of Baltimore
Experts estimated more than $15 million in local economic activity would be lost for every day the port stays shut.
Over the next few weeks, 107 vessels scheduled to dock in Baltimore will have to find another port - and far more the longer the harbor is closed.
Baltimore handled 52.3 million tons of foreign cargo last year worth about $80.8 billion, ranking ninth in the US for both metrics and records for the port.
The cost to shipping, consumers, and the American economy is too early to calculate, but every day the port is closed is $217 million worth of cargo not arriving.
The port generates more than 15,000 jobs, including 2,000 dock workers down $2 million a day in lost wages, and another 140,000 are dependent on port activity.
Link
If they were on break, they were likely sitting loose inside the truck(s) when it plunged. Between the sudden cold shock and the potential of being knocked out during the fall, I'd guess all drowned at this point.
Yes, being in the trucks might have been worse than out working. You won’t get any warning and will happen so fast you likely won’t be able to get out. They would also have the steel overhead structure coming down too that could have hit them. You can see the trucks with the yellow flashing lights on the bridge as it collapsed.