Death Wobble Sanity Check

[Carrington59]

Death wobble came back after 2 years and hoping to get a quick sanity check on what shop is recommending.

Jeep: 2006 Rubicon with 4.5" Rubicon Express lift, Savvy 1.25" BL with M.O.R.E. 1" MML, 295/75R16 tires, Savvy tummy tuck. (other mods too but those are the only big ones IMO that may affect the telemetry and/or CoG)

Background: 2 years ago in summer/fall of 2023 I got a bad death wobble issue after putting on BMB big brake kit (with unit bearings), Savvy Tummy tuck, and new ball joints (Spicer). Problem popped up about 3 weeks after those went on so may or may not have been related. I ended up getting it to stop after replacing: track bar, front upper control arms, front lower control arms, steering linkage (ZJ upgrade), and steering stabilizer. It finally stopped after the steering linkage and steering stabilizer went on together (so may have just been masked). Yes i am aware it is 'other than smart' to just randomly replace stuff without diagnosing, I was on biz travel at the time and limited tools/time to properly track down.

Current: Problem is back and I took it to a shop hoping to fix cheaper and quicker. 4 weeks and thousands later, doesnt appear to be the case. They originally thought the track bar and front upper control arms were the culprit. They said they found the track bar bushing blown axle side and front upper control arm bushings rotting (I questioned this based on the fact that those parts were 25 months old but they were pretty confident this was it). Replaced those items and still no luck. They are now thinking it may be the ball joints as they have 0.029" of play (although allowed up to 0.060" for spec). I mentioned that they are 2 years old with maybe 10k miles so questioned if this really is the issue but they mentioned they have checked everything else (including tire balancing) and ball joints are only item left with any sort of play. To me it just doesnt sound like this would be our issue and we gotta be missing something somewhere but need a quick sanity check. Is it really likely that they could have failed so soon or any other thoughts on what it may be?

 

[Tronner]

Speed or bump dependent? I am going through similar though my DW starts at about 55-57mph. Similar to you, everything is solid upfront, ball joints, TRE’s, hub bearings, track bar, etc feel good. Control arms are solid with no visible play. tires are recently rebalanced and only a year old. It’s frustrating stuff, sorry you are going through it (again).

 

[macleanflood]

I had to replace 2 year old Spicer ball joints on my 97. Went to put on a BMB big brake kit and discovered that problem. But...no death wobble.



-Mac

 

[Carrington59]

Speed or bump dependent? I am going through similar though my DW starts at about 55-57mph. Similar to you, everything is solid upfront, ball joints, TRE’s, hub bearings, track bar, etc feel good. Control arms are solid with no visible play. tires are recently rebalanced and only a year old. It’s frustrating stuff, sorry you are going through it (again).

Yes speed dependent starting at 40ish mph and higher (think I got it once at 36 but 40 is generally my rule of thumb). Seems like if both my tires hit a bump or hole at same time than its fine but if cadence is slightly off or if only one hits then DW starts up.

 

[Carrington59]

I had to replace 2 year old Spicer ball joints on my 97. Went to put on a BMB big brake kit and discovered that problem. But...no death wobble.



-Mac

So not entirely impossible that its just a bad lot of Spicer ball joints. Would be unfortunate given the PITA it has caused but think that may be outcome I am rooting for just so its resolved.

 

[Tronner]

Yes speed dependent starting at 40ish mph and higher (think I got it once at 36 but 40 is generally my rule of thumb). Seems like if both my tires hit a bump or hole at same time than its fine but if cadence is slightly off or if only one hits then DW starts up.

That sounds like bump to me, Sometimes if something is loose it can be both Speed and/or bump dependent. When my OEM UCA were bad it was speed related and would start the moment the jeep went more than 20mph. I would say replace the ball joints, its worth the peace of mind.

 

[Cooper Smith]

Yes speed dependent starting at 40ish mph and higher (think I got it once at 36 but 40 is generally my rule of thumb). Seems like if both my tires hit a bump or hole at same time than its fine but if cadence is slightly off or if only one hits then DW starts up.

Mine was speed dependent kicking in at 45 MPH. It ended up being the tires (and possibly the control arm bushings but it stopped after tires). They were from 2011 and the issue was in November of 2023. Even if the tires are newer, stick-on and even hammer on wheel weights can come off after a while especially if they're improperly installed. If they used stick on wheel weights and didn't clean the wheel off first, the weights are probably on the side of the road somewhere.

Tire balance on lifted SFA rigs with larger tires (harder to balance) is one of the most common causes of DW. Even if the belts in the tires aren't broken, if the wheel weights go bluetooth mode, it's no good for the balance of powers down there. I recommend Discount Tire.

I had a Dana 30, where the front upper bushings are incredibly difficult to get to as they're pressed into the axle, not the arm. Is the 44 the same way? If so, did you skip these? Someone on here said those tend to get skipped.

 

[Vtx531]

Is the steering stabilizer still good? You said you replaced it - sometimes aftermarket shocks go bad in a short period of time. Would just need to unbolt one end of it like the shock in the video to check.

 

[Tronner]

Mine was speed dependent kicking in at 45 MPH. It ended up being the tires (and possibly the control arm bushings but it stopped after tires). They were from 2011 and the issue was in November of 2023. Even if the tires are newer, stick-on and even hammer on wheel weights can come off after a while especially if they're improperly installed. If they used stick on wheel weights and didn't clean the wheel off first, the weights are probably on the side of the road somewhere.

Tire balance on lifted SFA rigs with larger tires (harder to balance) is one of the most common causes of DW. Even if the belts in the tires aren't broken, if the wheel weights go bluetooth mode, it's no good for the balance of powers down there. I recommend Discount Tire.

I had a Dana 30, where the front upper bushings are incredibly difficult to get to as they're pressed into the axle, not the arm. Is the 44 the same way? If so, did you skip these? Someone on here said those tend to get skipped.

44 is the same. X2 on replacing those bushings, they did cause DW for me in the past.

 

[Renegade TJ]

Mine was speed dependent kicking in at 45 MPH. It ended up being the tires (and possibly the control arm bushings but it stopped after tires). They were from 2011 and the issue was in November of 2023. Even if the tires are newer, stick-on and even hammer on wheel weights can come off after a while especially if they're improperly installed. If they used stick on wheel weights and didn't clean the wheel off first, the weights are probably on the side of the road somewhere.

Tire balance on lifted SFA rigs with larger tires (harder to balance) is one of the most common causes of DW. Even if the belts in the tires aren't broken, if the wheel weights go bluetooth mode, it's no good for the balance of powers down there. I recommend Discount Tire.

I had a Dana 30, where the front upper bushings are incredibly difficult to get to as they're pressed into the axle, not the arm. Is the 44 the same way? If so, did you skip these? Someone on here said those tend to get skipped.

X2 on checking tires unless you know you have a worn out suspension component. I developed a DW at 45 mph, it had only been 9 months since I went through the front end. I thought before I diognose a worn part, I will check my tires. Not missing wheel weights but found a thorn in the pass side sidewall from the last offroad trip, it was 10 psi. Filled it up to match the 20 psi on the driver's side and DW went away.

 

[JMT]

Yes speed dependent starting at 40ish mph and higher (think I got it once at 36 but 40 is generally my rule of thumb). Seems like if both my tires hit a bump or hole at same time than its fine but if cadence is slightly off or if only one hits then DW starts up.

Sounds like tires.

Does not sound like ball joints. Your play is within spec. Leave them alone. You only get about two ball joint changes on a knuckle. You’re removing small amounts of steel each time you do it.

 

[Carrington59]

Thanks all. Steering Stabilizer doesn't necessarily cause DW if I remember correctly but can mask it. Trying to find the actual cause. As far as the tires go, I have had this issue across 2 sets of wheels/tires (replaced in spring) but haas gotten significantly worse recently. I will definitely look into the axle side bushings of UCAs.

 

[Chippy]

Mine was speed dependent kicking in at 45 MPH. It ended up being the tires (and possibly the control arm bushings but it stopped after tires). They were from 2011 and the issue was in November of 2023. Even if the tires are newer, stick-on and even hammer on wheel weights can come off after a while especially if they're improperly installed. If they used stick on wheel weights and didn't clean the wheel off first, the weights are probably on the side of the road somewhere.

Tire balance on lifted SFA rigs with larger tires (harder to balance) is one of the most common causes of DW. Even if the belts in the tires aren't broken, if the wheel weights go bluetooth mode, it's no good for the balance of powers down there. I recommend Discount Tire.

I had a Dana 30, where the front upper bushings are incredibly difficult to get to as they're pressed into the axle, not the arm. Is the 44 the same way? If so, did you skip these? Someone on here said those tend to get skipped.

Not to derail the thread but the lip of my stock 05 wheels is all beat up I think from the wheel weights that are on the lip. I’m guessing these are hammer on ones? If I removed the wheel and tire and had it cleaned up do you think switching to stick on is a good idea? All my other cars have stick ones with no problems

 

[JMT]

Not to derail the thread but the lip of my stock 05 wheels is all beat up I think from the wheel weights that are on the lip. I’m guessing these are hammer on ones? If I removed the wheel and tire and had it cleaned up do you think switching to stick on is a good idea? All my other cars have stick ones with no problems

Get the wheel weights out of harms way. I think you answered your own question.

 

[bucky]

Rotate the tires to rule out an out of round issue.
I’ve not had a DW issue with my 05 TJRU but it is a chronic issue with my 19 F250. Started at 7K miles and had the front steering replaced under warranty. Appeared again at 25K and was because of the tires. Replaced the tires. Happened again at 54K. Replaced the motorcraft steering stabilizer with a Bilstein 5100.

 

[DirtDawg]

FWIW, my 2005 equipped with RE 5.5" L-A kit (installed 2012 at prox 50k miles) purchased by me 4+ months ago (now nearing 92k miles) exhibited no DW then nor now - despite control arms bushings being visibly and audibly shot. As part of deferred DIY maintenance, I've replaced tires, shocks and steering stabilizer. Steering has some free-play (unsure whether related to steering box, ball joints (seem tight) or those C-A bushings, however no DW seems pertinent to this discussion. I do plan on replacing the entire set of C-A arms with Metalcloak's kit when a compelling sale discount is announced (more than 10% off, please)...

 

[Strizzo]

Not to derail the thread but the lip of my stock 05 wheels is all beat up I think from the wheel weights that are on the lip. I’m guessing these are hammer on ones? If I removed the wheel and tire and had it cleaned up do you think switching to stick on is a good idea? All my other cars have stick ones with no problems

I would still recommend hammer on weights at least on the inside of the rim. the reason is that they will help with a cross balance that is not compensated for when tire shops just use stick on weights in the centerline of the wheel. You can have a tire perfectly balanced in the vertical plane, and it will still wobble side to side if the tire isn't cross-balanced. This is why you can run balance beads and still have a shake in the wheel but nothing in back, then when you rotate the tires, you still have shake in the wheel and nothing in the rear.

 

[Carrington59]

Axle side bushings were replaced as well when they did UCAs (and still got DW) so those should be good.

 

[MCtj04]

Did you have an alignment done when you replaced an components? If the caster is out of spec it can cause death wobble. Also, look at the track bar mounting holes. They can get ovaled out. Im fixed death wobble on many jeeps/trucks. Most times it's a mix of multiple worn out components. You need to have someone watch as someone else shakes the wheel back and forth to see what has play.

 

[Carrington59]

Yes I have had several alignments done in the past year and 2 while it has been in the shop. Problem also carried across 2 sets of tires/wheels (replaced past spring). They rechecked wheels are balanced properly and everything that had any play in front end has been replaced. They are currently stumped as to what may be causing it. Want to change steering stabilizer to see if it has any effect. They and I are both aware this does not fix but best case scenario is temporarily masking it. Even dry steering tests come back fine. Of course all of this is what they told me. Part of me thinking I just get it back and try to resolve myself. Only kicker is I am currently in for a not very nice number and they are saying everything they have done (which is not fixed it) has "contributed to death wobble."