Dual rate springs: JKS JSPEC dual rate versus Metalcloak dual rate

[01TJ-Blues]

Can anyone tell me which they prefer or if there is even difference in the JKS and the Metal Cloak dual rate springs? Are these the best for washboard roads and general off roading or is there a better option such as OME or Rubicon Express?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Chris]

The problem you're going to have is that I don't think anyone here has compared both springs, honest to goodness. I really don't think anyone out there has compared them both side-by-side.

That being said, any information you get is only going to be an opinion on one spring versus the other, not an actual conclusive comparison on the both of them and which might be better.

Personally I suggest Currie springs. They work well both on and off-road, and I honestly can't see how these "dual rate" springs would be any better... other than making you believe they are from a marketing standpoint.

 

[JMT]

Can anyone tell me which they prefer or if there is even difference in the JKS and the Metal Cloak dual rate springs? Are these the best for washboard roads and general off roading or is there a better option such as OME or Rubicon Express?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

We’ve had some long discussions about dual rate springs lately, especially JKS JSpec and @Farmergreg has a set being delivered any day now.

As far as comparison between MC and JKS, they are very different. The MC upper coils bind, basically forming a spacer. They only unbind when you get enough droop. They are designed to keep the spring from unseating. It’s not a true dual rate spring because when springs are bound they do not active (i.e. they are acting as a spacer)

JKS upper coils are separated and have a different rate. They are similar to the AEV and Nth Degree coils that are no longer available for our TJ’s. They are a true dual rate that allow you to ride in the softer rated upper coil and support more weight with the higher rated lower portion of the coil.

My personal opinion, and meaning no disrespect to any MC’ers about there, but I’d go with a true dual rate like the JKS if I was looking for that kind of spring. And I think there could be some advantages to the dual rate over a linear rate.

There’s a long thread around here somewhere about all this. It was just last week.

 

[01TJ-Blues]

We’ve had some long discussions about dual rate springs lately, especially JKS JSpec and @Farmergreg has a set being delivered any day now.

As far as comparison between MC and JKS, they are very different. The MC upper coils bind, basically forming a spacer. They only unbind when you get enough droop. They are designed to keep the spring from unseating. It’s not a true dual rate spring because when springs are bound they do not active (i.e. they are acting as a spacer)

JKS upper coils are separated and have a different rate. They are similar to the AEV and Nth Degree coils that are no longer available for our TJ’s. They are a true dual rate that allow you to ride in the softer rated upper coil and support more weight with the higher rated lower portion of the coil.

My personal opinion, and meaning no disrespect to any MC’ers about there, but I’d go with a true dual rate like the JKS if I was looking for that kind of spring. And I think there could be some advantages to the dual rate over a linear rate.

There’s a long thread around here somewhere about all this. It was just last week.

@JMT this is exactly why I posted, I thought the MC having the initial coils completely compressed during normal driving would be basically the same as a straight rate. To only utilize them during full droop isn’t what I am after, true dual rate (JKS) would yield the rise I am after.

Thanks for the insight and based on this fact alone my mind is made up unless there is an argument for OME or other wise. My end goad is ride quality on small chop, I’m not a hard core rock crawler but enjoy the journey to and from the destination.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[JMT]

@JMT this is exactly why I posted, I thought the MC having the initial coils completely compressed during normal driving would be basically the same as a straight rate. To only utilize them during full droop isn’t what I am after, true dual rate (JKS) would yield the rise I am after.

Thanks for the insight and based on this fact alone my mind is made up unless there is an argument for OME or other wise. My end goad is ride quality on small chop, I’m not a hard core rock crawler but enjoy the journey to and from the destination.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If you do follow through with the JKS, several of us would appreciate a report back. Out of curiosity, are you going with the 2” or 3” or a combination?

I really like the OME for a linear rate spring. Usually they are longer for whatever lift height and their rates are lower which make for an excellent linear rate spring choice. But if I wasn’t already in an OME, I’d give the JKS 3” a shot. Looking forward to a report back on them!

What shocks are you going to run with your springs? They are more influential on ride quality than springs.

 

[01TJ-Blues]

If you do follow through with the JKS, several of us would appreciate a report back. Out of curiosity, are you going with the 2” or 3” or a combination?

I really like the OME for a linear rate spring. Usually they are longer for whatever lift height and their rates are lower which make for an excellent linear rate spring choice. But if I wasn’t already in an OME, I’d give the JKS 3” a shot. Looking forward to a report back on them!

What shocks are you going to run with your springs? They are more influential on ride quality than springs.

I currently have a 3” Rough Country (I think from PO) and plan to go 3” with another spring and Ranchi RS5000X shocks.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[zebra12]

@Fargo is researching this topic too. I'm waiting for news he found a stash of Nth springs.

 

[jjvw]

Metalcloak coils are a gimmick. Intentionally putting the spring into bind at the normal ride height is silly, especially when you need to add bump stop extension for the rear.

If you are concerned about washboard roads, then you need to look at shocks, not springs. Springs set the ride height. Shocks determine the ride.

 

[Twowheelz]

I too am waiting to see how the JKS springs work on someone’s rig . I emailed Justin a JKS and he got right back to me . My rig will have a winch and heavy bumper and already has a heavy Gavin rear tire carrier and Wilderness Rack . As well as a hardtop during the winter . He suggested that I go with the 3” springs. I just want to make sure that the top soft rate section is not bound like the MCs or RKs because that will kinda defeat the point for me . I am building more of a camping/ expedition rig . Not a rock crawler . So I care more how it goes down the highway and down a trail at medium speed .Justin is at SEMA so I was not going to bug him until he returned.
I have a lot of experience in the Motorsports industry and have set up a bunch of bikes and especially side by sides (UTVS) with true dual rate springs but the setup is different because the springs are totally separated on a coil over . Most of the coil overs have a separate collar for the soft spring so it is easy to set that sag point .

 

[01TJ-Blues]

I too am waiting to see how the JKS springs work on someone’s rig . I emailed Justin a JKS and he got right back to me . My rig will have a winch and heavy bumper and already has a heavy Gavin rear tire carrier and Wilderness Rack . As well as a hardtop during the winter . He suggested that I go with the 3” springs. I just want to make sure that the top soft rate section is not bound like the MCs or RKs because that will kinda defeat the point for me . I am building more of a camping/ expedition rig . Not a rock crawler . So I care more how it goes down the highway and down a trail at medium speed .Justin is at SEMA so I was not going to bug him until he returned.
I have a lot of experience in the Motorsports industry and have set up a bunch of bikes and especially side by sides (UTVS) with true dual rate springs but the setup is different because the springs are totally separated on a coil over . Most of the coil overs have a separate collar for the soft spring so it is easy to set that sag point .

Same here, winch, heavy bumper and armor and the current springs are sagging in the front. So for the ride height comment from another member, I agree which is why I’m looking to update springs, and if so why not dual rate and also add shocks. If your springs are too soft and compressed and your shocks are then mid stroke all the time that’s where your get the harsh choppy ride on the smaller bumps at speed. Sounds like a 3” for me as well.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[jjvw]

.... I am building more of a camping/ expedition rig . Not a rock crawler . So I care more how it goes down the highway and down a trail at medium speed .... .

What you are describing is not mutually exclusive between a rock crawler and an expo Jeep. Look at my build thread for a pretty good example of a do it all build.

I'll keep saying it, what people are looking for in springs is actually going to be found in shocks, followed by a well setup suspension with good up travel.

The job of the springs is set the ride height and they carry the load. We don't have the range of options or the tunability that can be had with coil overs.

Shocks control the movement of the springs.

 

[bobthetj03]

We discussed a bunch of this in the coil spring debate thread.

 

[01TJ-Blues]

What you are describing is not mutually exclusive between a rock crawler and an expo Jeep. Look at my build thread for a pretty good example of a do it all build.

I'll keep saying it, what people are looking for in springs is actually going to be found in shocks, followed by a well setup suspension with good up travel.

The job of the springs is set the ride height and they carry the load. We don't have the range of options or the tunability that can be had with coil overs.

Shocks control the movement of the springs.

100% agree however a dual rate spring doesn't simply set ride height like a straight rate would. If that was true why do desert trucks running the likes of King, Fox etc in most cases run dual and triple rate setups? The spring indeed sets ride height however the softer portion give way quicker than the firm portion thus allowing the shock to move quicker. Which is yet another debate because then a dual rate spring and a straight rate would theoretically work better with differently valves shocks. More thank likely a heavier low speed compression and rebound stack on the dual rate.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[jjvw]

100% agree however a dual rate spring doesn't simply set ride height like a straight rate would. If that was true why do desert trucks running the likes of King, Fox etc in most cases run dual and triple rate setups? The spring indeed sets ride height however the softer portion give way quicker than the firm portion thus allowing the shock to move quicker. Which is yet another debate because then a dual rate spring and a straight rate would theoretically work better with differently valves shocks. More thank likely a heavier low speed compression and rebound stack on the dual rate.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Are desert racers running separate off the shelf coils and shocks like most of us are, or are they running custom tuned coilovers? This is an apples to oranges comparison. And we don't need to waste our efforts on theoreticals that are not realities for most of us.

My point is that we should not be getting hung up on whether a coil is linear, dual, triple or quadruple rate. The differences between a set of options for a given ride height are not different enough from each other to have a meaningful effect on the ride quality. Especially when shocks can quickly and easily overshadow whatever variances in springs you think you can feel. If the coils create the ride height you need and will support the changes in cargo you anticipate, then those are likely the best coils for your needs. After that, address the ride and movements with shock valving. Focus on what where the meaningful results are. Tuning the ride through springs is low priority with the options most of us have available.

 

[01TJ-Blues]

Are desert racers running separate off the shelf coils and shocks like most of us are, or are they running custom tuned coilovers? This is an apples to oranges comparison. And we don't need to waste our efforts on theoreticals that are not realities for most us us.

My point is that we should not be getting hung up on whether a coil is linear, dual, triple or quadruple rate. The differences between a set of options for a given ride height are not different enough from each other to have a meaningful effect on the ride quality. Especially when shocks can quickly and easily overshadow whatever variances in springs you think you can feel. If the coils create the ride height you need and will support the changes in cargo you anticipate, then those are likely the best coils for your needs. After that, address the ride and movements with shock valving. Focus on the priorities. Tuning the ride through springs is low priority with the options most of us have available.

Again, 100% agree with the exception that there MAY be a ride benefit in a dual rate spring versus straight rate. I have first hand knowledge that indeed a swap from a NEW same length straight rate and NEW same length dual rate for sure had a more plush ride in the small choppy stuff. Same exact shocks so without a doubt the FEEL of the dual rate on small chop was better. My original question in this post was between MC and JKS and it looks like that has yet to be answered. That said I may be the guinea pig as my trail buddy has MC and that would be a great back to back to validate or dismiss which of THOSE brands again, FEEL better.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[bobthetj03]

MC only makes a 3.5" spring for the TJ, and the grapevine says that spring nets 4"+ of lift, so how are you going to compare that spring to a JSPEC spring netting 3" of lift? Will your shocks be in the same "sweet spot" of travel? Is there a same amount of "active spring" being utilized between the two. Inquiring minds would like your input.

 

[01TJ-Blues]

MC only makes a 3.5" spring for the TJ, and the grapevine says that spring nets 4"+ of lift, so how are you going to compare that spring to a JSPEC spring netting 3" of lift? Will your shocks be in the same "sweet spot" of travel? Is there a same amount of "active spring" being utilized between the two. Inquiring minds would like your input.

Well, unless somehow I had an array of springs and a static test procedure there really isn’t anyway to answer all if these questions. So all I can do is go by opinions and some real word personal testing and hopefully find what I like in short term...before breaking the bank...and which may not be what someone else likes. And that is where the issue is, personal preference for feel.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Fargo]

@Fargo is researching this topic too. I'm waiting for news he found a stash of Nth springs.

Unfortunately, no stash of Nth springs has been found. So my current plan is to use JKS when I get to my project.

If the coils create the ride height you need and will support the changes in cargo you anticipate, then those are likely the best coils for your needs. After that, address the ride and movements with shock valving. Focus on what where the meaningful results are. Tuning the ride through springs is low priority with the options most of us have available.

I agree. From personal experience with dual rates vs single rate springs in my Maxima, I believe dual rates can offer different ride characteristics. However, I think the reason to purchase a dual rate spring is to carry the extra load of a heavily weighted down expedition rig. This is the focus of AEV and I believe also JKS. The reason I want dual rate is to have a softer rate when empty but a firm rate when loaded down.

One question I don't have an answer to is how shock tuning is done with a dual rate spring. Since you have 2 different rates do you get a shock that is tuned more to the stiff rate or the soft rate? My best guess is you tune the shock to the rate that you will be riding in most often.

 

[LJ G]

The problem you're going to have is that I don't think anyone here has compared both springs, honest to goodness. I really don't think anyone out there has compared them both side-by-side.

That being said, any information you get is only going to be an opinion on one spring versus the other, not an actual conclusive comparison on the both of them and which might be better.

Personally I suggest Currie springs. They work well both on and off-road, and I honestly can't see how these "dual rate" springs would be any better... other than making you believe they are from a marketing standpoint.

I’ve been looking for Currie springs for my LJ

 

[Greedyg76]

Bringing this one back from the dead. I’m currently looking at the JKS 2” system for my daily driver on 32s. Did anybody ever test the JKS dual rate springs?