And you will go to your grave announcing to everyone around you that you won't participate.
enSHITification
- Thread starter Chris
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And you will go to your grave announcing to everyone around you that you won't participate.
That's right. Why should I participate in foolishness (at best), or even downright evil (at worst)?
I'm afraid that I know all too well what we're dealing with here, and utterly reject it on several levels.
I love remote start. I have it on my F-250. When it’s hot I push the button on my key fob and the AC starts to cool the cab. When it’s cold it starts the engine to warm up and the heat starts faster. Blowing hot by the time I get a block down the street. On the other hand I have it on my Mazda CX-5 and it’s everything evil about new car technology. First I have to use my smart phooooonne. Second after 2 yrs they want you to pay a subscription fee to use it. Thankfully it’s the Wife’s DD and I only drive it when we take roadtrips. The best tech in that car is the heated and cooled seats. I wish I had that in 78 when I lived in Wisconsin.
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I took my drivers test at 17 with a 18.5’ long 1972 Plymouth Fury station wagon. Had to parallel park it between 2 real cars. Funny thing is I set the parking brake, which was required, and when I went to release it I pulled the hood release instead. I though I failed the test but the DMV guy just laughed and I passed on my first try. My Dad did not let us use the parking brake because he thought the cable would get stuck from Wisconsin salt corrosion so I wasn’t used to doing it.
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Simple for me. I know where all the corners of my vehicles are. I’ve freaked out more than one passenger fitting in some tight places. When I had my bee business and had 24’ bed class 7 trucks and I routinely had to hook up to my forklift trailers. Many times I had to just get out and walk to the back and check alignment.
I took my drivers test at 17 with a 18.5’ long 1972 Plymouth Fury station wagon. Had to parallel park it between 2 real cars. Funny thing is I set the parking brake, which was required, and when I went to release it I pulled the hood release instead. I though I failed the test but the DMV guy just laughed and I passed on my first try. My Dad did not let us use the parking brake because he thought the cable would get stuck from Wisconsin salt corrosion so I wasn’t used to doing it.
I'm not defending @Zorba's position, however, must call out BS when I see it.
As far as I can tell, NO ONE with a backup camera can get even close to this, unless by pure luck. More people appear to be backing into spaces nowadays (because of the cameras), yet it would seem the camera does them little good. Parking jobs are obviously worse...and that camera would seem to do little to help one center their vehicle in the space laterally, which is typically the bigger issue.
I'm sure someone here will argue they can, I would counter that it's unlikely unless you also have proximity sensors. You need to know the physical bounds of your vehicle, and most people have no clue. I know some old salts that could backup a 53' trailer with mirrors more precisely than 99% of people with backup cameras on their Kia SUV, because they are aware of the extents of the mass they are operating. All this stuff is simply compensation for people not using what's already available (eyes, brain, mirrors) because they just can't be bothered...and that's why self-driving cars are even a thing, and why I suspect someday will be mandatory as well.
I don't think cameras should be mandated. Mirrors always work, provided you use them. Of course, if you're too lazy to clear the snow off your car, teats on a boar hog would be more useful than either option...
I'm not defending @Zorba's position, however, must call out BS when I see it.
As far as I can tell, NO ONE with a backup camera can get even close to this, unless by pure luck. More people appear to be backing into spaces nowadays (because of the cameras), yet it would seem the camera does them little good. Parking jobs are obviously worse...and that camera would seem to do little to help one center their vehicle in the space laterally, which is typically the bigger issue.
I'm sure someone here will argue they can, I would counter that it's unlikely unless you also have proximity sensors. You need to know the physical bounds of your vehicle, and most people have no clue. I know some old salts that could backup a 53' trailer with mirrors more precisely than 99% of people with backup cameras on their Kia SUV, because they are aware of the extents of the mass they are operating. All this stuff is simply compensation for people not using what's already available (eyes, brain, mirrors) because they just can't be bothered...and that's why self-driving cars are even a thing, and why I suspect someday will be mandatory as well.
I don't think cameras should be mandated. Mirrors always work, provided you use them. Of course, if you're too lazy to clear the snow off your car, teats on a boar hog would be more useful than either option...
Most times there's no need to park 1" from something, nor do most people care.
When you drive a full size truck using all the available space becomes important. Such as parking on the outside rows of a parking lot so that your rear end overhangs the grass allowing your vehicle to park further in and more out of the way of retards that can't drive.
However I will explain a time in my life that my backup camera was very useful even though parking was possible without it.
I used to have a house with a 3rd stall that I parked my truck in. At the back of that stall I had ATV's stacked on a lift that I built. That spot was where I parked my truck and I needed to get it very close to the column of the lift so that I could close the garage door. You couldn't see that column with either side mirror. I had to park my pre backup camera F150 based on a mark on the wall, it was doable.
Once I got my truck with a camera I could back up and clearly see that column and back up to where I could just touch it if I wanted to. Made life significantly easier.
Nobody should need a backup camera, much like nobody needs an electric impact. You can do everything with a ratchet but there are times when they have their benefits and make life easier. The camera is an additional tool to use, I'd be surprised if people that have them never find a beneficial use for them.
Back to parking, the wife's car will parallel park and perpendicular park itself when a space has a car on each side, the few times we've played with it, it does a better job than most people can do on their best day and it does it every single time, it's another tool in the bag.
not when the dealer pays flag rate and the manufacturer underestimates the hours required.
I'm not defending @Zorba's position, however, must call out BS when I see it.
As far as I can tell, NO ONE with a backup camera can get even close to this, unless by pure luck. More people appear to be backing into spaces nowadays (because of the cameras), yet it would seem the camera does them little good. Parking jobs are obviously worse...and that camera would seem to do little to help one center their vehicle in the space laterally, which is typically the bigger issue.
I'm sure someone here will argue they can, I would counter that it's unlikely unless you also have proximity sensors. You need to know the physical bounds of your vehicle, and most people have no clue. I know some old salts that could backup a 53' trailer with mirrors more precisely than 99% of people with backup cameras on their Kia SUV, because they are aware of the extents of the mass they are operating. All this stuff is simply compensation for people not using what's already available (eyes, brain, mirrors) because they just can't be bothered...and that's why self-driving cars are even a thing, and why I suspect someday will be mandatory as well.
I don't think cameras should be mandated. Mirrors always work, provided you use them. Of course, if you're too lazy to clear the snow off your car, teats on a boar hog would be more useful than either option...
I strongly suspect I am arguing from a position of experience.
I have no idea precisely how close I get to the thing I am backing up into. What I do know is that on the screen, I can see my rear bumper and I can see how close it is to the obstacle behind it is ways that are impossible with mirrors. My camera screen also has grid lines. It did not take long for me to figure out what a comfortable gap was based entirely on the screen.
Also, when an inconsiderate asshole parks their vehicle tight behind mine, the camera makes it much easier to leave, again because I can see exactly how much space I have available in ways mirrors cannot do.
I thought I was old and skeptical of tech.
I know useful tech and dumb tech. A backup camera is useful. I don't have one on the Jeep, but it is useful. I don't have power locks, windows, or seats either. But cruise control and AC is great.
A touch screen interface to change the temperature and fan speed is not useful. Especially when you need to scroll through screens to get to it. Removing physical controls that can be operated without taking your eyes off the road is stupid.
The tech itself isn't the reason for the issues. It's the misuse of tech.
We all know the end goal is to herd us into walking cities and have us rent driverless EVs; until our monthly carbon allotment runs out. Own nothing. See China for examples.
I know useful tech and dumb tech. A backup camera is useful. I don't have one on the Jeep, but it is useful. I don't have power locks, windows, or seats either. But cruise control and AC is great.
A touch screen interface to change the temperature and fan speed is not useful. Especially when you need to scroll through screens to get to it. Removing physical controls that can be operated without taking your eyes off the road is stupid.
The tech itself isn't the reason for the issues. It's the misuse of tech.
We all know the end goal is to herd us into walking cities and have us rent driverless EVs; until our monthly carbon allotment runs out. Own nothing. See China for examples.
Can’t imagine they don’t. Maybe at a lesser rate than customer pay for the same? I thought the subscription ‘discussion’ was spot on, though. It does seem like some of the manufacturers are getting a bit absurd with the concept.
I assumed tech's were paid by the hour not by the job.
Indeed. I can't say I ever had to do it in my lifetime.
That's a whole other subject to unpack - but I won't other than to say; vehicles keep getting bigger (for no logical reason in most cases) and people should know their limits as an operator. I'm not giving you direct shit here, App, I suspect you are more than capable, but many people buy vehicles they simply cannot handle...and that one goes deeper than just vehicle size...
I get it, I do. Not being a Luddite here.
Granted, a bit simplistic of a comparison, and not a completely fair one. Tools reduce workload and are force multipliers (among other things). Mirrors do not require extra effort to use, and I would debate the "easier" bit as well in the majority of cases. I think a lot of this is simply because our society, as a whole, is getting lazier and less capable. They want everything done immediately for them and will always take the path that requires less effort and thought, every single time. Learn how to do something yourself, or have it done for you by some thing or someone else...I know which of those is more popular. The backup camera is only a harbinger of a much bigger issue. I feel like "useful", "helpful" and "convenient" carry very different meanings than they used to.
So is a left handed smoke shifter.
I have no doubt they do. I suspect many love having a backup camera. I also suspect these same people previously avoided backing up at all costs and likely didn't use their mirrors anyway (and still don't).
Fair enough, but I wouldn't see a need for that ability in a vehicle for myself. I wouldn't suggest my parking is inch perfect, but I know both of my vehicles well and suspect I could probably match anyone with a camera, at least give them a good run for the money.
I like technology. I'm not a fan of forced tech, especially under the bullshit guise of it making things safer...but you probably gathered that already. As options on vehicles, I really don't care except for when they don't necessarily improve things (tech for the sake of tech). From what I've witnessed lately in many parking lots, I am not convinced these cameras are giving most people the power to park better.
Most experienced techs are flat rate, they only make money by doing the job faster than the time allotted. But, as @freedom_in_4low noted, time cutting is a very real (and lucrative) thing. Just ask a collision insurance adjuster...
I see it and say it all the time when I see people who shouldn't be driving trucks driving them. Can't park them, can't turn a corner without swinging wide...
With the popularity of quad-cab dually 4x4 trucks now, I see WAY too many who shouldn't be driving them.
The thing that really irks me is when they are whipping through traffic like a Civic with a fart pipe, barely missing other vehicles.
We have a problem out here that I started noticing about ten years ago where a whole bunch of people in all sizes of vehicles are incapable of making a left turn without veering to the right to swing wide. This is a frequently scary thing on a multi-lane one way street during heavy traffic.
This is why we need cars with lane assist.
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