ERP systems

[Mike_H]

Kind of an off the wall question, but I figured there are a lot of intelligent people here that I can use as a resource. As some of you may know, I run a small/Medium sized machining company. We are a specialized cutting tool manufacturer (indexible inserts and tool holders). Predominately Carbide, but we also do PCD and CBN inserts. Very High tolerance work. Anyway, we operate on the "job Shop" philosophy where we quote and get a PO before we do any work and incur costs. Our current ERP is by ECI, called JobBOSS² (formerly Shoptech E2 before ECI bought them). I didn't pick this software (I just joined the company a year ago) and frankly, it SUCKS. It doesn't do anything really well. Financial reporting is terrible. On the support forums, most people recommend using Quicken instead of E2! We have completely moved away from using it to schedule jobs because of its limitations. Plus...its slow.

I'd like to start investigating a new system, but I only have experience with HUGE systems (like SAP or Epicor). Kinda wondering what else is out there. Anyone use a particular software solution in a job shop that they would recommend or steer away? I can google search, but hearing some actual user feedback will help focus my research.

Thanks

 

[Amorget]

One option is Microsoft Dynamics 365. It's cloud based and sounds like it could work for you what you do.

 

[srimes]

#1, Implementation is everything! Good software poorly implemented will suck. I don't know if it's still true, but 10 years ago I heard that most companies end up doing the implementation twice! They don't know what they're doing the 1st time and have to do it again. I've never worked with JobBoss, but I have heard of it. It may be just fine for your needs if implemented correctly.

#2, Don't let Accounting be in charge of picking the system and the implementation! Accounting is not the primary customer of an ERP system! This is the problem I've seen with Microsoft Dynamics. The software "can do anything" if you pay for tons of custom modules and programming, but what you end up with is financial reports that don't tell you what's needed on a day-to-day basis.

The best system I've used was an ancient JD Edwards MRPII that was originally set up on a mainframe. These systems have been around for a long time, the concept isn't new. But the effort seems to be all on a fancy front end but that doesn't mean shit if the back end doesn't have the right inputs.

 

[Mike_H]

#1, Implementation is everything! Good software poorly implemented will suck. I don't know if it's still true, but 10 years ago I heard that most companies end up doing the implementation twice! They don't know what they're doing the 1st time and have to do it again. I've never worked with JobBoss, but I have heard of it. It may be just fine for your needs if implemented correctly.

#2, Don't let Accounting be in charge of picking the system and the implementation! Accounting is not the primary customer of an ERP system! This is the problem I've seen with Microsoft Dynamics. The software "can do anything" if you pay for tons of custom modules and programming, but what you end up with is financial reports that don't tell you what's needed on a day-to-day basis.

The best system I've used was an ancient JD Edwards MRPII that was originally set up on a mainframe. These systems have been around for a long time, the concept isn't new. But the effort seems to be all on a fancy front end but that doesn't mean shit if the back end doesn't have the right inputs.

Agree wholeheartedly with point 1. I've been on the "implementation 2x (or 3x)" rodeo. There are some actual software limitation with Jobboss that I'm finding, good implementation or not. I also don't think accounting should be "in charge" of picking the ERP, but when you can run the same report 2 times and get different results...that is an issue.

It sounds like you're recommending a material resource planner (MRP) vs a full on ERP?

 

[SoCalGlide]

I work in a precision sheet metal fab job shop. I used to work for the owner when he was GM at another shop. There, he implemented Global Shop. Evidently, he liked it well enough that he implemented it here when he opened his own shop 7 years ago. It works as well as the info entered into the system allows it to.

 

[srimes]

Agree wholeheartedly with point 1. I've been on the "implementation 2x (or 3x)" rodeo. There are some actual software limitation with Jobboss that I'm finding, good implementation or not. I also don't think accounting should be "in charge" of picking the ERP, but when you can run the same report 2 times and get different results...that is an issue.

It sounds like you're recommending a material resource planner (MRP) vs a full on ERP?

ERP contains MRP, so nothing wrong with ERP when done correctly. All depends on what you're looking for. I was just giving an example of an old system done very well. I'm an industrial engineer so my focus has always been on the production operations side of things, so that's where my bias lies.

But I know MRP, so that's where my line of questioning goes when evaluating systems. If they don't get the fundamentals (ie, the consultants providing dynamics 365 who cater to accounts) I don't feel confident.

What are you looking for that you're currently not getting?

Good accounting reports help you make good operational decisions. Weak reports just tell you how much money you mad or lost, with no clue as to why. Bad reports straight up lie to you. I've dealt with more weak and bad reports than good.

Another small system I've used and liked is Factory Edge. But I think they've migrated to 100% cloud-based now, and my even be under a different name.

 

[Apparition]

I've used MAN MAN, JD Edwards, Oracle, Microsoft Dynamics and probably others I've forgotten about. They all suck. I've never seen one that worked well and customization is expensive and stupid.

In business school they taught us that 65% of these implementations will be both over budget and over time for implementation. I think they sad 95% would be at least one of those.

Good luck.

 

[Mike_H]

I've used MAN MAN, JD Edwards, Oracle, Microsoft Dynamics and probably others I've forgotten about. They all suck. I've never seen one that worked well and customization is expensive and stupid.

In business school they taught us that 65% of these implementations will be both over budget and over time for implementation. I think they sad 95% would be at least one of those.

Good luck.

Well, aren't you a ray of sunshine!