Experience with Rock Krawler 2 inch Lift Kit


jjvw

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But they sell kits with just springs, all the way up to the "kitchen sink". If that's what the customer wants, why not sell it? If he wants it, he's going to get it anyway. It's no indication of quality or even nafariousness.

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What the customer wants isn't necessarily what is best for the customer. Many customers assume the seller knows what is best for the customer. Many sellers are more than happy to sell the customer whatever they think they want.

There are several layers of vicious circles working together that can create a dark smelly pit of ground up hopelessness.
 
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05 Blue Unlimited

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What the customer wants isn't necessarily what is best for the customer. Many customers assume the seller knows what is best for the customer. Many sellers are more than happy to sell the customer whatever they think they want.
And for me this is exactly why I have Great respect for this forum and for what @Chris has built here. I wheeled for 4 yrs before I felt I was ready to lift my LJ. Over that time I read and picked the brains of those on here to know exactly what I needed. One thing I read early on was to only buy a part once, meaning that rushing in to do something was often more costly than saving up and doing it properly the first time.

Having said that most kits are designed to maximize profit not the wheeling experience. Are there exceptions, sure.


There are several layers of vicious circles working together that can create a dark smelly pit of ground up hopelessness.
A possible ref to Dante's Inferno ?
 
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BobK

BobK

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I hear you guys and will hold off on the Rock Krawler kit for now. I'm considering all the options you have contributed, but there are multiple goals in my thinking process. 1) replace many bushings by replacing all upper and lower control arms (front and rear), replace springs and shocks since they look past their expiration date, 3) upgrade to 33" tires, and 4) apply a modest lift to accomplish this.

I'll have to admit to being a bit skittish about needing a SYE and removing the transfer case is not high on my list of things I can't wait to do are there other alternatives? But I do appreciate the collective wisdom of the group.
 

dudehitt

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What the customer wants isn't necessarily what is best for the customer. Many customers assume the seller knows what is best for the customer. Many sellers are more than happy to sell the customer whatever they think they want.

There are several layers of vicious circles working together that can create a dark smelly pit of ground up hopelessness.
This is pretty much what I was trying to say. I'm a noob. I know nothing. I've read x number if posts on here saying "remove the dropped pitman arm, your problems will disappear." IF the company doing the engineering knows what they are doing they should know that, right? Adjustable control arms are different. Not always needed, but sometimes they are. But either way, they don't create problems. Even transfer case drops can solve a problem. Most people here seem to think it's a bad solution, but it is a solution.

The company i work for makes lab equipment for soil and rock testing, a lot of it used for pure research. We offer as many options as we can to maximize how much $ we can charge. But we either don't offer incompatible/useless/problem causing parts or we make it right by redesigning stuff so it works together when the sales guys get crazy. Sometimes we lose money.

The only reason to sell stuff that causes as many or more problems than it solves is so you can make more money.

Like I said, I don't know much. But i do know that selling people stuff that will cause then problems is not the way to get repeat customers. We've got plenty of those.
 

ftwhite3

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The kit you started this thread asking about, includes both a drop pitman and a front trackbar relocation bracket. Selling one without the other would be misleading to newbies. But they sell both in this kit, so I don't see how your logic applies that they are doing something wrong.

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jjvw

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The kit you started this thread asking about, includes both a drop pitman and a front trackbar relocation bracket. Selling one without the other would be misleading to newbies. But they sell both in this kit, so I don't see how your logic applies that they are doing something wrong.

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They may not be doing anything wrong in that the two pieces might compliment each other. But what is their purpose? Are they needed in the first place? Is this couple causing problems for others elsewhere?
 

ftwhite3

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The exercise of applying lifts or drops to trucks starts out with creating geometry problems and then solving them.

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jjvw

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The exercise of applying lifts or drops to trucks starts out with creating geometry problems and then solving them.

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Correct. And the manner in which some geometry issues are addressed will depend on the type of suspension. After that, some problems that are assumed to require a solution might be best left alone for most purposes.
 

05 Blue Unlimited

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includes both a drop pitman and a front trackbar relocation bracket
The issue I see is that they include both an adj TB AND a relocation bracket. Why? Even though it is laser cut, it is not needed. Add to this the D pitman, 3 break lines (not 4) seems to indicate that whoever put the kit together does not understand this small amount of lift or they are taking advantage of an unaware consumer. To me this is bad either way. All for the low low price of 2500.

I just can't seem to find the "but wait there's more".
 
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ftwhite3

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What's an adjustable TB, and a drop pitman and TB location bracket have to do with each other? One is steering and one is axle location. If I have an adjustable TB should I not run Currie Currectlync Link?

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05 Blue Unlimited

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What's an adjustable TB, and a drop pitman and TB location bracket have to do with each other? One is steering and one is axle location. If I have an adjustable TB should I not run Currie Currectlync Link?

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The only thing they have in common is that they are included in this kit. On a 2" lift a D pitman usually causes steering issues. The adjustable TB does not need a relocation bracket as it should mount in the stock location.
 

ftwhite3

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You might be right for your TJ, but the kit covers YJs, CJs, and TJs. If you use a drop pitman on any jeep, it is my understanding that you need a TB relocation bracket.
Again, if you don't need or want a drop pitman, don't buy one. If one will mess up your jeep, certainly don't buy one. But assuming a company is ripping you off because they offer you one is silly.

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Mike_H

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The only thing they have in common is that they are included in this kit. On a 2" lift a D pitman usually causes steering issues. The adjustable TB does not need a relocation bracket as it should mount in the stock location.
Right up until you install said dropped pitman arm and cause bumpsteer because the angle of the drag link doesn't match the angle of the track bar. Their relocation bracket is to correct that problem... Both of which are not necessary on a 2" lift.
 
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05 Blue Unlimited

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You might be right for your TJ, but the kit covers YJs, CJs, and TJs. If you use a drop pitman on any jeep, it is my understanding that you need a TB relocation bracket.
Again, if you don't need or want a drop pitman, don't buy one. If one will mess up your jeep, certainly don't buy one. But assuming a company is ripping you off because they offer you one is silly.

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Dude first, this is a TJ forum not a CJ or YJ forum; what works there is not the subject. However, the contents of this kit is. Second, no one, certainly not me, has said they "are [is] ripping you off". My point has only been that this kit is very expensive for a 2" gain and has a lot of unnecessary items. Items that in all likelyhood will cause issues.
 

jjvw

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We can cut to the chase and easily say that there is no need for either a dropped pitman arm or a dropped track bar bracket for most reasonably lifted TJs with well selected modifications. If these parts need to be relocated, chances are good that the Jeep isn't using the stock axles and most kits won't do what is needed to begin with.

FWiW, mine does not have dropped anything. The drag link and track bar are in the stock mounting locations.
20190330_122311.jpg

20181229_164036.jpg
 

Mike_H

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We can cut to the chase and easily say that there is no need for either a dropped pitman arm or a dropped track bar bracket for most reasonably lifted TJs with well selected modifications. If these parts need to be relocated, chances are good that the Jeep isn't using the stock axles and most kits won't do what is needed to begin with.

FWiW, mine does not have dropped anything. The drag link and track bar are in the stock mounting locations.
View attachment 93255
View attachment 93256
That first picture, with the passenger front tire in the air, is pretty bad ass.
 
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ftwhite3

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Sorry, I thought someone said that since this kit contains certain components, you should question the quality of the kit/brand. I agree it is way more than needed for most TJs for sure. In fact for 2" of lift, I think you can start with a $600 kit with everything you probably ever need. If you find out you really have geometry problems, you can buy what you need to solve them. Enough said on my part. I like my Rock Krawler :)
 

dudehitt

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I was wrong. I didn't study the pictures enough to know the dropped pitman arm came with the parts needed to compensate. I still think the price is high because they include parts you don't need for that amount of lift. Could be wrong though. Teach me. I want to learn.