High Mileage 2001 Sahara Build

[jodomcfrodo]

Took some photos in the car wash. Will get better ones tomorrow. Put 100 miles on it today. No major issues. Needs the rear pinion angle adjusted a little, new ball joints, the exhaust rubs the front driveshaft a little, and a few other minor things. But otherwise I'm very happy with it.


The shifter has moved a little bit up. My hand is also pretty close to hitting the dash when going into third. Going to have to bend it I think.

 

[Chris]

Without going back through the thread, how much was the complete frame swap invoice?

That would be sort of a good number for me to remember as a number to throw out for people who potentially have very bad rust issues.

I'm talking about the total for the labor, frame, and everything!

 

[jodomcfrodo]

Without going back through the thread, how much was the complete frame swap invoice?

That would be sort of a good number for me to remember as a number to throw out for people who potentially have very bad rust issues.

I'm talking about the total for the labor, frame, and everything!

My number is a bit inflated because of the amount of stuff I had done. I have an excel spread sheet with all the costs added up. The total is a bit embarrassing. A rough starting point would be this: $4000 labor, $1000-$1500 for the frame. Those are not my exact costs, but they are close.


Here is a list of everything that has been put on my TJ since Novemeber:

• Powder coated frame
• BMB 15" brakes
• Savvy TT
• Savvy shifter
• Savvy body lift
• Savvy MML
• Savvy tail lights
• Savvy rock sliders
• Replaced currie control arms
• Replaced Bestop trek top NX
• Genright rear bumper
• Grabbars
• JKS rear track bar
• Engine entirely resealed
• JB Conversion SS SYE
• Blue monkey speedo healer
• Currie steering
• TRE synthetic rope and hawse
• New brake Lines
• New body mounts
• New 35" tires
• Tom Wood driveshafts
• Revolution rear 4340 axle shafts
• Revolution front 4340 axle shafts

And thats only what I can remember off the top of my head. I'm probably missing quite a few things. My cost for a frame swap is no where near what getting just the frame swapped would be.

 

[Chris]

My number is a bit inflated because of the amount of stuff I had done. I have an excel spread sheet with all the costs added up. The total is a bit embarrassing. A rough starting point would be this: $4000 labor, $1000-$1500 for the frame. Those are not my exact costs, but they are close.


Here is a list of everything that has been put on my TJ since Novemeber:

• Powder coated frame
• BMB 15" Brakes
• Savvy TT
• Savvy shifter
• Savvy body lift
• Savvy MML
• Savvy Tail lights
• Savvy rock sliders
• Replaced Currie Control arms
• Replaced Bestop Trek top NX
• Genright rear bumper
• Grabbars
• JKS rear track bar
• Engine entirely resealed
• JB Conversion SS SYE
• Blue monkey speedo healer
• Currie Steering
• TRE Synthetic rope and Hawse
• New Brake Lines
• New Engine mounts
• New 35" tires
• Tom Wood Driveshafts

And thats only what I can remember off the top of my head. I'm probably missing quite a few things. My cost for a frame swap is no where near what getting just the frame swapped would be.

I know how inflated bills go, trust me.

So realistically about $5500 for a rust free frame plus labor. I guess that just goes to show how much one of those rusted out frames really diminishes the value of a used TJ / LJ.

That's a crap ton of labor, no doubt about that. I suspect they billed you for about 40 hours worth assuming $100 an hour.

 

[jodomcfrodo]

I know how inflated bills go, trust me.

So realistically about $5500 for a rust free frame plus labor. I guess that just goes to show how much one of those rusted out frames really diminishes the value of a used TJ / LJ.

That's a crap ton of labor, no doubt about that. I suspect they billed you for about 40 hours worth assuming $100 an hour.

I will have to go check my invoice. They only billed me 25 hours for labor relating to the frame swap. But my Jeep is an anomaly, there is no other rust on it besides the frame. They didn't have to fight any rusty bolts. I'd imagine that you would want to add another 15 hours at least for other stuff such as engine seals. I think 40 hours is a good starting point for sure.

 

[Chris]

I will have to go check my invoice. They only billed me 25 hours for labor relating to the frame swap. But my Jeep is an anomaly, there is no other rust on it besides the frame. They didn't have to fight any rusty bolts. I'd imagine that you would want to add another 15 hours at least for other stuff such as engine seals. I think 40 hours is a good starting point for sure.

An anomaly indeed. I would think that they would have had to deal with multiple rusted bolts on the body and other things. You got lucky though! I suspect in worse cases, someone could spend more like 6-7k if they had one that had frame rust and body rust. At that point it's not even worth buying the vehicle (assuming you know about the rust beforehand).

Either way, I'll bet you're happy you don't have to deal with the rust anymore.

 

[jodomcfrodo]

An anomaly indeed. I would think that they would have had to deal with multiple rusted bolts on the body and other things. You got lucky though! I suspect in worse cases, someone could spend more like 6-7k if they had one that had frame rust and body rust. At that point it's not even worth buying the vehicle (assuming you know about the rust beforehand).

Either way, I'll bet you're happy you don't have to deal with the rust anymore.

Well, there is a tiny bit of rust to deal with yet unfortunately. My driver fender has some rust. I’m going to get this fixed in the spring. It is the only body rust on the entire Jeep. I’ve checked that 100 times. I wouldn’t have fixed the frame if the body was shot too.

The entire paint job of the Jeep is in shambles. I’ll probably get the whole Jeep repainted in a few years.

The hood is very bad. Not rusty, just missing paint.

My Jeep has always confused me when it comes to rust. Besides the fender rust, there is no other rust on the Jeep (which I’m extremely happy about).



I’ll also say that I got the Jeep rushed of the shop so that I could go on a 3000 mile road trip two weeks from now. It is going to go back in the spring for a lot of other things such as the fender above. I also think the Jeep definitely needs another inch of lift. Getting the rear axle set up for that is going to take some work because the pinion angle is going to be very high. For now though, I’m happy with the Jeep and expect it to do well on my trip.

 

[Chris]

Oh yeah, just get the whole thing repainted in a few years. Hell, until then I'd probably take care of the fender and maybe even spray it with some matching spray paint just so the rust doesn't get any worse.

But yeah, that rust situation is a bit odd. Usually when the frame is bad, it means the body is bad as well. Have you inspected the window frame at all? I know that's a common area.

I think at this point it's safe to say that you've probably got more money into the Jeep than the Jeep cost you outright. I know how that goes

 

[jodomcfrodo]

Oh yeah, just get the whole thing repainted in a few years. Hell, until then I'd probably take care of the fender and maybe even spray it with some matching spray paint just so the rust doesn't get any worse.

But yeah, that rust situation is a bit odd. Usually when the frame is bad, it means the body is bad as well. Have you inspected the window frame at all? I know that's a common area.

I think at this point it's safe to say that you've probably got more money into the Jeep than the Jeep cost you outright. I know how that goes

I will never say the full amount of what I have in the Jeep. But I’ll say this. I’ve spent more on the Jeep since August than the initial purchase price of the Jeep in 2001... yup.

I haven’t inspected the windshield frame lately. I’ve only taken it down once and that was back in 2016 or so. I didn’t notice anything at that point but I also wasn’t looking for rust back then. I will probably check again sometime soon. I’m actually hoping to drive the Jeep to Green Bay, Wisconsin tomorrow so maybe I’ll do that then.

 

[Chris]

I will never say the full amount of what I have in the Jeep. But I’ll say this. I’ve spent more on the Jeep since August than the initial purchase price of the Jeep in 2001... yup.

I haven’t inspected the windshield frame lately. I’ve only taken it down once and that was back in 2016 or so. I didn’t notice anything at that point but I also wasn’t looking for rust back then. I will probably check again sometime soon. I’m actually hoping to drive the Jeep to Green Bay, Wisconsin tomorrow so maybe I’ll do that then.

These things truly are rabbit holes, that's for sure. One thing leads to another, leads to another, leads to another... etc.

The whole rust thing was never really even on my radar until owning a Jeep to be honest.

 

[jodomcfrodo]

These things truly are rabbit holes, that's for sure. One thing leads to another, leads to another, leads to another... etc.

The whole rust thing was never really even on my radar until owning a Jeep to be honest.

That’s truly the biggest problem with doing a frame swap. Literally every modification you could ever imagine makes sense to do at that point in time. There were so many things where I just said “if you’re already in there, just do it”. My frame swap would have been 1000’s cheaper if I hadn’t done a lot of new modifications.

In the future, I really have to decide what to do with the Jeep. I could build it like yours, maybe just keep it on 35’s and use it as a weekend car. You know, to go get ice cream with my future kids or something fun like that. I could also send it down to Wide Open Deisgns and have them throw the body on a full tube chassis, LS swap it, and put some 42’s on.

Right now I’m leaning towards keeping it on 35’s. I definitely plan to buy a second TJ or LJ once I’m settled in my career. I think that one is going to be the full out buggy build. Right now, I’d like my current jeep to stay basically as it is.

 

[Chris]

That’s truly the biggest problem with doing a frame swap. Literally every modification you could ever imagine makes sense to do at that point in time. There were so many things where I just said “if you’re already in there, just do it”. My frame swap would have been 1000’s cheaper if I hadn’t done a lot of new modifications.

In the future, I really have to decide what to do with the Jeep. I could build it like yours, maybe just keep it on 35’s and use it as a weekend car. You know, to go get ice cream with my future kids or something fun like that. I could also send it down to Wide Open Deisgns and have them throw the body on a full tube chassis, LS swap it, and put some 42’s on.

Right now I’m leaning towards keeping it on 35’s. I definitely plan to buy a second TJ or LJ once I’m settled in my career. I think that one is going to be the full out buggy build. Right now, I’d like my current jeep to stay basically as it is.

Yep, that's the problem. The "well while I'm in there I might as well...". Eventually you get to the point where you've dumped so much money into it that you've passed the point of no return. But in my mind, once you get past 35s, you're really not dealing with a street vehicle anymore. 37s aren't going to fit without some stronger (and wider axles). At that point you may as well put on coilovers since it makes more sense. But you're also going to want to stretch the wheelbase... Where does it end?

Like you, I often think about just buying a second TJ or LJ and getting it for cheap enough that it's sole intention would be just an off-road vehicle, period. I think that it's kind of hard to have a vehicle that's great on-road, but also great off-road.

I remember when I used to ride motorcycles, all these guys would be looking for the perfect Enduro bike. One that had amazing off-road capability, but was also a joy to ride on longer highway trips.

What it always came down to was that there was no such thing, it's just not possible. You could have something that was a happy medium, but it's as the saying always goes, "jack of all trades, master of none".

And for that reason, I think the idea of a dedicated off-road trail rig makes a lot of sense. Which is ultimately where I think I'll get to eventually if I were to purchase a second one.

 

[jodomcfrodo]

Yep, that's the problem. The "well while I'm in there I might as well...". Eventually you get to the point where you've dumped so much money into it that you've passed the point of no return. But in my mind, once you get past 35s, you're really not dealing with a street vehicle anymore. 37s aren't going to fit without some stronger (and wider axles). At that point you may as well put on coilovers since it makes more sense. But you're also going to want to stretch the wheelbase... Where does it end?

Like you, I often think about just buying a second TJ or LJ and getting it for cheap enough that it's sole intention would be just an off-road vehicle, period. I think that it's kind of hard to have a vehicle that's great on-road, but also great off-road.

I remember when I used to ride motorcycles, all these guys would be looking for the perfect Enduro bike. One that had amazing off-road capability, but was also a joy to ride on longer highway trips.

What it always came down to was that there was no such thing, it's just not possible. You could have something that was a happy medium, but it's as the saying always goes, "jack of all trades, master of none".

And for that reason, I think the idea of a dedicated off-road trail rig makes a lot of sense. Which is ultimately where I think I'll get to eventually if I were to purchase a second one.

Hopefully one day I'll have my current TJ and a trail rig TJ. I really like the stuff that Wide Open Designs makes. I think something like this would be a great trail rig.

 

[Mike_H]

Looks Good so Far...wanna see more pictures from further out.


I hear you about the anomoly thing. My frame is really good. Surface rust, and one soft spot where it doesn't matter. Easy to fix. I've looked inside and out. My tub, on the other hand...Its already had replacement fenders put on it, I had to do a rocker repair last winter, the pass side torque box has holes (not in the typical spots though), the pass rear corner is going, my drivers door has rust in the seam at the bottom, I've replaced the windshield frame already, and every pinch weld underneath has rust. Oh, and both rear wheel wells have rust at the fronts of them (where the stupid fender liners are flat and trap water). I can cut and repair everything but the pinchwelds. Those...there isn't any way to get inside them to clean the rust out. SO...I'm looking for a tub. Figure I'll throw a new southern tub on it, and sell this one to someone who wants to try and fix it.

 

[IPerkWVU]

Congrats on getting the TJ back, it has to feel great to see it back in the driveway / parking lot.

My shifter also is fairly close (likely not as close as yours) to hitting the dash after my 2" UCF skid Install. I'm actually happy with it though because before the TT I had difficulties getting it all the way within 2nd, 4th, R since it had a MML / BL installed. Now everything is easy to shift into again. I also have a few small exhaust issues to work out but nothing major.

Jeep looks great, I'd keep it on 35s long term since you spent a bunch to get your current set-up established. What springs are you running?

 

[Chris]

Hopefully one day I'll have my current TJ and a trail rig TJ. I really like the stuff that Wide Open Designs makes. I think something like this would be a great trail rig.

View attachment 81211

That would be awesome to have something like that along with the street driven TJ. I guess if I ever win the lottery

 

[jodomcfrodo]

Looks Good so Far...wanna see more pictures from further out.


I hear you about the anomoly thing. My frame is really good. Surface rust, and one soft spot where it doesn't matter. Easy to fix. I've looked inside and out. My tub, on the other hand...Its already had replacement fenders put on it, I had to do a rocker repair last winter, the pass side torque box has holes (not in the typical spots though), the pass rear corner is going, my drivers door has rust in the seam at the bottom, I've replaced the windshield frame already, and every pinch weld underneath has rust. Oh, and both rear wheel wells have rust at the fronts of them (where the stupid fender liners are flat and trap water). I can cut and repair everything but the pinchwelds. Those...there isn't any way to get inside them to clean the rust out. SO...I'm looking for a tub. Figure I'll throw a new southern tub on it, and sell this one to someone who wants to try and fix it.

Going to get some more photos in a few minutes.

It is really weird how these TJ’s rust. I don’t understand how your body can be so bad but your frame really is fine. I also don’t understand how my frame could be so bad but my body is fine.

Congrats on getting the TJ back, it has to feel great to see it back in the driveway / parking lot.

My shifter also is fairly close (likely not as close as yours) to hitting the dash after my 2" UCF skid Install. I'm actually happy with it though because before the TT I had difficulties getting it all the way within 2nd, 4th, R since it had a MML / BL installed. Now everything is easy to shift into again. I also have a few small exhaust issues to work out but nothing major.

Jeep looks great, I'd keep it on 35s long term since you spent a bunch to get your current set-up established. What springs are you running?

My hand basically hits the dash when going into third. It slams right into the heater controls. One thing I’ve also noticed is that it is much more difficult than before to get the shifter over into 1st or 2nd. It feels like the boot is binding when I go left.

On a positive note, my transmission no longer pops out of 2nd (low range) or 4th (high range). I guess the person who installed my rebuilt transmission didn’t do it right. I had always assumed the transmission was rebuilt incorrectly.

Right now I have Savvy 3” springs.

 

[jodomcfrodo]

Took some photos from further away. I think I should probably go with some 4" Currie springs. The fenders are a bit too close to the tires for my liking. Have yet to measure my uptravel, but it should be around 4".

The Savvy tail lights are BRIGHT. Almost too bright even.

My license plate is held on with zip ties. Perfectly fine with that, just hope I don't get pulled over for having no light.

This is right after I washed my frame out for the first time. You can see how the frame fills with water. What you're seeing in the frame hole is not the frame, but water. I'm going to drill some drain holes. I also ordered some eastwood internal coating. The powder-coater wasn't able to get full 100% coverage internally. My frame wasn't perfect when I first bought it, so it is better to be safe than sorry. One thing I do know is that the Jeep will see little to no salt in the future. I'm just not going to drive it in the salt anymore.

Here is where the exhaust is hitting my front driveshaft.

 

[jodomcfrodo]

After studying for finals for 10 hours straight, I thought I would go for a drive to get some more miles on the Jeep. I then noticed that there was a puddle of coolant on the ground under the engine. Apparently my shop thought it was unnecessary to tighten any coolant hose clamps at all . Lost about a gallon of coolant over the past week but I'm just thankful a hose didn't blow off at some point. Tightened those up and thought I'd get some things done that I've been avoiding. College has kept me so busy that this is the first time I've done anything to the Jeep myself in over a year.

Fixed my mirror paint with a super quick rattle can:

Put a new oil pressure sender in. Didn't have a deep well socket so I had to screw around with an adjustable wrench for a while. Hate stupid things that make simple jobs hard.

Added a bit more to my sticker collection. The Jeep has been to all the places that I have stickers for. I'm going to try to add a sticker anytime I go somewhere notable.

Put my new TRE synthetic on properly. Had my shop do it and they left it super loose on the drum. I couldn't find my winch controller (after I took the line out...) so I had to wrap the winch rope up for a second. Later found the remote so I could actually spool it in. First time I've moved the winch in 19 months.

After the frame swap I have about 500 miles on the Jeep. It feels pretty good so far. No vibrations at all. The 4.56 gears with 35's isn't so bad. I would definitely prefer 4.88, but I'm not sure I'd like 5.13's. Haven't had any large problems so far and hope it stays that way. Goes back in for a checkup on Monday and then I leave for Wyoming early Friday morning. I trust it enough to get me the 1500 miles out there.

 

[tomtaylz]

My number is a bit inflated because of the amount of stuff I had done. I have an excel spread sheet with all the costs added up. The total is a bit embarrassing. A rough starting point would be this: $4000 labor, $1000-$1500 for the frame. Those are not my exact costs, but they are close.


Here is a list of everything that has been put on my TJ since Novemeber:

• Powder coated frame
• BMB 15" brakes
• Savvy TT
• Savvy shifter
• Savvy body lift
• Savvy MML
• Savvy tail lights
• Savvy rock sliders
• Replaced currie control arms
• Replaced Bestop trek top NX
• Genright rear bumper
• Grabbars
• JKS rear track bar
• Engine entirely resealed
• JB Conversion SS SYE
• Blue monkey speedo healer
• Currie steering
• TRE synthetic rope and hawse
• New brake Lines
• New engine mounts
• New body mounts
• New 35" tires
• Tom Wood driveshafts
• Revolution rear 4340 axle shafts
• Revolution front 4340 axle shafts

And thats only what I can remember off the top of my head. I'm probably missing quite a few things. My cost for a frame swap is no where near what getting just the frame swapped would be.

Wow I’m sure that feels like a different Jeep!