How to install a Ecoboost oil cooler / heater in a 4.0 and why

[MikeE024]

On most driving my oil never gets much over 170 degrees. When idling I can get the temp up to 185. Tested this all this month with a GlowShift oil and temperature gauge.

Granted where the "temperature" is being read is straight out of the oil pan.

If I saw those results I'd want to try a different sensor.

I say that because this is the first time I've seen results like this shared by someone with a 195* thermostat and also because my IR thermometer puts the pan temps around 250* near the pre-cats, and 180* & 190* in other areas after driving for 5-10 minutes going between 25-45 mph.

@macleanflood it's very possible that your numbers are correct. My eyes and ears are open on this one. I'm curious to know what your pan temps are with an IR thermometer as the oil in the pan could be cooler than the pan temps.

Note: My temps were taken in 79* ambient last night with the engine off, and the initial reading of the pre-cats area was much higher from the radiation (336*).

 

[macleanflood]

I've verified the numbers with an IR thermometer (granted a HF model) holding the gun within three inches of the intended target. Both on the top of the sensor port and against the sides of the oil pan.

Results were posted in the thread I cited above.

And as I said before... sample size of one means nothing.

I'm comfortable and confident with my cooling system temperatures. I went through three thermostats, replaced the water neck...new Napa/Gates water pump...all verified with my IR thermometer...which I verified is "accurate" by checking boiling water.

I won't take anything personally. Freely admit I screw up the scientific method occasionally. I'm an IT guy who thinks he can mechanic.

-Mac

 

[JustDandee]

Just contributing to oil temp discussion after. 20 minute commute home today. Following as I built that heat shield between the exhaust and pan but neglected to document the before temps.

 

[MikeE024]

I've verified the numbers with an IR thermometer (granted a HF model) holding the gun within three inches of the intended target. Both on the top of the sensor port and against the sides of the oil pan.

Results were posted in the thread I cited above.

Perfect, I'll try to find those results.

Edit: @macleanflood I can't find where you posted about IR thermometer readings on the pan. I'll look again.

And as I said before... sample size of one means nothing.

A sample size of one can be better than none, and it can be compared with others...your info matters to me.

I'm comfortable and confident with my cooling system temperatures. I went through three thermostats, replaced the water neck...new Napa/Gates water pump...all verified with my IR thermometer...which I verified is "accurate" by checking boiling water.

I'm not concerned about your ECTs in a vacuum nor have I thought to question them. I care about the relationship between your oil temps to the ECTs.

I won't take anything personally. Freely admit I screw up the scientific method occasionally.

I mess that up most of the time if we're being transparent. We do the best we can what what we got.

 

[freedom_in_4low]

If I saw those results I'd want to try a different sensor.

I say that because this is the first time I've seen results like this shared by someone with a 195* thermostat and also because my IR thermometer puts the pan temps around 250* near the pre-cats, and 180* & 190* in other areas after driving for 5-10 minutes going between 25-45 mph.

@macleanflood it's very possible that your numbers are correct. My eyes and ears are open on this one. I'm curious to know what your pan temps are with an IR thermometer as the oil in the pan could be cooler than the pan temps.

Note: My temps were taken in 79* ambient last night with the engine off, and the initial reading of the pre-cats area was much higher from the radiation (336*).

I'm also still running a 180* thermostat that keeps my ECTs around 190-193 in town (and sometimes on the highway... which goes against 99% of the messages I've seen and written saying that a TS doesn't affect the ceiling. Some of you have seen my numbers from the PCM, and a 190* reading coincides with the dash gauge showing about two needle widths to the left of center (210*).

Edit:

It's also possible that your numbers on the gauge are correct...but your temps are running lower than normal. This isn't an attempt to scare you, I'm just looking at different angles. Maybe you could drop your oil after running the engine for a while and take a temp reading. I'd happily pitch in for your oil change lol. I just changed my oil last week and dropped the ball by not thinking to do that.

My hunch is that another sensor will confirm his readings... For where the sensor is installed. Don't know why I didn't think about this before but it's in a dead end passage outside of the direct flow path in that sensor tree and probably losing some heat to ambient in that location. Best practice for an accurate reading would be immersion in the flow path, which would need to go straight down through the top of that hex plug, or in a turbulent pool (the pan).

As for how many degrees that would be worth ...I honestly couldn't tell you 5 or 20. But probably not zero.

 

[MikeE024]

My hunch is that another sensor will confirm his readings...

Me too especially after reading that Glow Shift's stuff can be hit-and-miss. And this isn't to pick on Mac in any way.

For example, my Thinkdiag2's trans temp reading was and likely still is incorrect. I decided this after my AeroF gauge's temp matched my Autometer gauge's temp (that I hooked back up to the pan for verification before I sold it). The Thinkdiag2 was incorrectly reading 155.9F* when converted from C to F, and the other gauges read around 132*.

Mac and I know all too well that new parts don't always work perfectly that's why I mentioned it. But, I also understand if he doesn't want to touch those tee fittings.

For where the sensor is installed. Don't know why I didn't think about this before but it's in a dead end passage outside of the direct flow path in that sensor tree and probably losing some heat to ambient in that location. Best practice for an accurate reading would be immersion in the flow path, which would need to go straight down through the top of that hex plug, or in a turbulent pool (the pan).

As for how many degrees that would be worth ...I honestly couldn't tell you 5 or 20. But probably not zero.

Do you think it would be silly to get a reading while draining hot oil? I'd rather not change my current setup at the oil sender that tees into an oil-feed line for the turbo. But, I'd like to learn more about my temps if that's reasonably possible.

 

[MikeE024]

Flowkooler sourced Robert Shaw 195.

-Mac

This is what I will go to next if I pull my current thermostat. It's the only TS left that I'd like to install for experimental purposes.

 

[macleanflood]

Current configuration...I was going to put the temperature sensor directly in line with the factory 3/8" npt adapter...but the distributor is in the way...

-Mac

 

[freedom_in_4low]

Me too especially after reading that Glow Shift's stuff can be hit-and-miss. And this isn't to pick on Mac in any way.

For example, my Thinkdiag2's trans temp reading was and likely still is incorrect. I decided this after my AeroF gauge's temp matched my Autometer gauge's temp (that I hooked back up to the pan for verification before I sold it). The Thinkdiag2 was incorrectly reading something like 228* when converted from C to F, and the other gauges read around 173*.

Where is the OE trans temp sensor that the PCM reads from? If it's buried in the transmission somewhere like right before it leaves to go to the cooler, both readings could be right.

Mac and I know all too well that new parts don't always work perfectly that's why I mentioned it. But, I also understand if he doesn't want to touch those tee fittings.



Do you think it would be silly to get a reading while draining hot oil? I'd rather not change my current setup at the oil sender that tees into an oil-feed line for the turbo. But, I'd like to learn more about my temps if that's reasonably possible.

Not at all. It's a pretty good volume for the surface area so the most heat it would lose is in the stream into the catch bucket.

An alternative might be to tape a thermocouple to the dipstick and feed it down the dipstick tube. Then it wouldn't take an oil change to check the temp. But I wouldn't know whether the thermocouple wire would fit down there without trying it, and if things go bad you may end up with a stray piece of tape blocking part of the pump pickup screen.

 

[MikeE024]

Where is the OE trans temp sensor that the PCM reads from? If it's buried in the transmission somewhere like right before it leaves to go to the cooler, both readings could be right.

Sadly, I've forgotten (maybe near the NSS). But that answer might be in the thread showing the photos of my gauge results (see post#72 in this thread).

I know that the Thinkdiag2 was incorrect because it gets the reading from PCM just like the AeroF gauge. I believe it's a mistake on their software side. I messaged them about it just to give them a heads-up. This was after I ran the Autometer gauge to verify which device was correct.

Not at all. It's a pretty good volume for the surface area so the most heat it would lose is in the stream into the catch bucket.

Cool thanks for explaining that.

An alternative might be to tape a thermocouple to the dipstick and feed it down the dipstick tube. Then it wouldn't take an oil change to check the temp. But I wouldn't know whether the thermocouple wire would fit down there without trying it, and if things go bad you may end up with a stray piece of tape blocking part of the pump pickup screen.

I like the thermocouple idea...might work well with a good amount of small zip ties (to share the load for tension and shear strength) so we don't worry about tape getting sucked up on the pickup tube.

 

[macleanflood]

They make magnetic thermocouples...you could check multiple surface temperatures.

https://www.omega.com/en-us/temperature-measurement/temperature-surface-sensors/p/MP1-MP2

Might be nice to monitor differential temperatures too.

-Mac

 

[MikeE024]

They make magnetic thermocouples...you could check multiple surface temperatures.

https://www.omega.com/en-us/temperature-measurement/temperature-surface-sensors/p/MP1-MP2

Might be nice to monitor differential temperatures too.

-Mac

You guys got me thinking that I should just get one for my multimeter.

I ordered item number three (normal temp range w/ integrated banana adaptor, but here are other options as well).

- Item 1 is a K type that also works with the banana adaptor (item number 2)
- Item 3 is an integrated version that I got for my multimeter
- Item 4 is a K type for checking temps beyond 482*F that also works with the banana adaptor (item number 2)

 

[freedom_in_4low]

Sadly, I've forgotten (maybe near the NSS). But that answer might be in the thread showing the photos of my gauge results (see post#72 in this thread).

I know that the Thinkdiag2 was incorrect because it gets the reading from PCM just like the AeroF gauge. I believe it's a mistake on their software side. I messaged them about it just to give them a heads-up. This was after I ran the Autometer gauge to verify which device was correct.

Ah, ok yeah the AeroF gauge also reading from the PCM would indicate that. And since we've identified at least one other point that the Thinkdiag decodes incorrectly, it's not a leap to think they messed up another. (The other being when the cam/crank goes negative and the value goes to 6556.5 or whatever it was)

Cool thanks for explaining that.

To go further, if you drain it into something that's as square as possible (height and width/diameter roughly equal) vs a typical pan that's wide and shallow, that'll give you the best chance of a reading in the bucket being close to what it was in the pan. Or you could put a meat thermometer up the drain hole while it's draining, but it's going to be messy.

I like the thermocouple idea...might work well with a good amount of small zip ties (to share the load for tension and shear strength) so we don't worry about tape getting sucked up on the pickup tube.

Yeah, whatever you can fit down the dipstick tube loosely enough that you're sure it'll come back out.

 

[MikeE024]

Ah, ok yeah the AeroF gauge also reading from the PCM would indicate that. And since we've identified at least one other point that the Thinkdiag decodes incorrectly, it's not a leap to think they messed up another. (The other being when the cam/crank goes negative and the value goes to 6556.5 or whatever it was)

Exactly what I was thinking. Blew my mind the first time I saw "their version" of being negative with the cam/crank.

To go further, if you drain it into something that's as square as possible (height and width/diameter roughly equal) vs a typical pan that's wide and shallow, that'll give you the best chance of a reading in the bucket being close to what it was in the pan.

Good to know!

Or you could put a meat thermometer up the drain hole while it's draining, but it's going to be messy.

I really hate messes, so I'll keep that as a backup plan. (certainly happy you mentioned it)

Yeah, whatever you can fit down the dipstick tube loosely enough that you're sure it'll come back out.

I feel pretty good about the thermocouple route if it's like the one I used many years ago. I'll have it soon, so I'll let you know how it goes.

I'm going to be that guy on the side of the road checking this a bunch and loving every minute of it.

 

[Steel City 06]

Stick something like this in the drain bung:
https://www.speedwaymotors.com/Clas...UvZLglDMHScEZx4cqS-qFlZDK_iJLHdNfv0hmDmJp9dCJ

 

[macleanflood]

Made a quick video with some of the footage I took...

-Mac

 

[MikeE024]

Stick something like this in the drain bung:
https://www.speedwaymotors.com/Clas...UvZLglDMHScEZx4cqS-qFlZDK_iJLHdNfv0hmDmJp9dCJ

I run a shorty Fumoto drain that makes oil changes a breeze with the armor on, so I probably won't mess with the drain. Thanks for sharing about this though.

Made a quick video with some of the footage I took...

-Mac

Thanks for sharing Mac. I hope to get a reading through the dipstick in the next couple of days.

 

[MikeE024]

Made a quick video with some of the footage I took...

-Mac

I took some oil temp readings through the dipstick while the engine idled for 5-10 minutes (after highway driving followed my local driving).

Ambient temp 84*.

ECT's were constant at 190*.

My first oil reading was 195* and my last oil reading was 199*.

Coolant

Oil

 

[Rickyd]

My hunch is that another sensor will confirm his readings... For where the sensor is installed. Don't know why I didn't think about this before but it's in a dead end passage outside of the direct flow path in that sensor tree and probably losing some heat to ambient in that location. Best practice for an accurate reading would be immersion in the flow path, which would need to go straight down through the top of that hex plug, or in a turbulent pool (the pan).

As for how many degrees that would be worth ...I honestly couldn't tell you 5 or 20. But probably not zero.

That was my first thought too. Followed by why he wants temp readings on a stock 4.0l?on a high performance motor I'd be curious what it's doing and if an oil cooler could help coolant/oil temps and oil life.


@MikeE024 on performance diesels you don't want oil temps going past coolant temps. If they do the coolant temps usually follow.

Oil temps would need to be read while Using horsepower and generating heat to compare to the cooling system in real time. Otherwise I don't see it as a useful measurement.

You'd need to be very fast on the draw(on a dyno?) to get a good measurement

 

[MikeE024]

That was my first thought too. Followed by why he wants temp readings on a stock 4.0l?on a high performance motor I'd be curious what it's doing and if an oil cooler could help coolant/oil temps and oil life.


@MikeE024 on performance diesels you don't want oil temps going past coolant temps. If they do the coolant temps usually follow.

Oil temps would need to be read while Using horsepower and generating heat to compare to the cooling system in real time. Otherwise I don't see it as a useful measurement.

You'd need to be very fast on the draw(on a dyno?) to get a good measurement

I must be missing your point.

For context

In his video, Mac stated that the hottest reported oil temp his device provided occurred while the engine was in idle (183*)...and this was with a 195* thermostat.

His oil temperature numbers and their relationship to his ECTs were lower than what I've seen reported countless of times on BITOG for gas engines. Gas engine oil temps are known to be similar to the coolant temps and are also known to run hotter than the coolant temps.

Thus, I wanted to look into this more. I measured my oil temp data in idle (through the dipstick) and shared that my device provides a higher oil temp than what he shared even though my ECTs were surely cooler than his (likely around 10* cooler).

For this conversation, I'm not considering numbers from diesel engines (nor do I think it's wise or necessary to do so).