Hunting, rational thought, a new rifle
- Thread starter StG58
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I watch it whenever I need a good laugh, about once every two years or so."Broke into the wrong God damn rec room, didn't ya you bastard!"
Great movie
So this is the money shot. The very same people who highly recommend hunting with a pistol, reject hunting the same exact game with the same exact cartridge in a carbine. What sense does that make? Even with all of the advantages of a carbine over a pistol, the experts will warn you that you will be under gunned and leave wounded and dying critters strewn about the landscape. The logic escapes me.
Even in the TJ world, a healthy dose of critical thinking and a touch of skepticism is called for.
It doesn't make any sense, because the longer the barrel the greater velocity within parametersSo this is the money shot. The very same people who highly recommend hunting with a pistol, reject hunting the same exact game with the same exact cartridge in a carbine. What sense does that make? Even with all of the advantages of a carbine over a pistol, the experts will warn you that you will be under gunned and leave wounded and dying critters strewn about the landscape. The logic escapes me.
Even in the TJ world, a healthy dose of critical thinking and a touch of skepticism is called for.
My guess would be because people think since they are now using a rifle means much longer shots. Truth be told the rifle does not get you much more range over the revolver. A safe bet would be maybe twice as far. So 50 yds for the revo, 100 for the rifle.So this is the money shot. The very same people who highly recommend hunting with a pistol, reject hunting the same exact game with the same exact cartridge in a carbine. What sense does that make? Even with all of the advantages of a carbine over a pistol, the experts will warn you that you will be under gunned and leave wounded and dying critters strewn about the landscape. The logic escapes me.
Even in the TJ world, a healthy dose of critical thinking and a touch of skepticism is called for.
The longer barrel does give you more velocity with the same loads, the pressure generated acts on the bullet for a longer period of time. It also allows for the use of slower burning powder in greater quantity (more generated gas volume for the same peak pressure) which gives an additional boost to velocity. The longer barrel also increases the sight radius, allowing for more precise and steady aim with similar sights. Slower powder also means that you can use softer alloy for cast bullets. That has a positive effect on the pocket book and on the terminal ballistics. (I shoot cast scrap lead. It costs me nothing as I dig it out of the berm)
There's a lot of truth to that I imagine. The maximum range that I will shoot a revolver for hunting is in the 50 to 80 yard range, and that's only with my long barreled Ruger. And then only if I'm shooting from a steady sitting position. Others can shoot out to 100 or a little more, but I don't have that skill any longer. For target work, yes, but not hunting. My short barreled Ruger is reliable out to about 20 - 30 yards, with 30 yards being more iffy. The difference between a 4" and a 7-1/2" barrel is pretty remarkable. My guess is that the 16" barrel on the carbine will be good out to about 120 - 150 yds with a well developed hand load. That's more than plenty for my needs because most of my shots are from 80 to 100 yards. It's a rare and wonderful thing when I can stretch a shot out to 150 yards. That's all the way across a clear cut! Whoo-hoo!
So a reliable 3-4" group at 150 yards is sufficient for my needs. That's well within the reach of a 44 Mag or 45 Colt carbine. I don't even think that going to the really heavy bullets is absolutely required. 240 or a little more for the 44 and 275 or a little more for the 45 should work out just fine. Compensating for bullet drop at those ranges is a matter of practice. It becomes automatic, just like leading a running critter becomes. That practice is super cheap with a revolver round. I think my reloads run me about $5-7 for 50. It's cheap enough that I practice with my hunting loads anyway. Brass lasts forever, pistol and shotgun powder is cheap and the lead costs me nothing. No gas checks. It's primers, powder and a little time and electricity.
I only hunt two things that will try to eat me, and only hunt those with backup. If the wife's 45-70 won't seal the deal, then we've got bigger problems than usual.
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Remember though, you can only fit so much powder in a small case like the 45LC. There isn't much difference load wise in revo vs. rifle loads with most being the same. There are diminishing returns in regards to barrel lengths as well. Too long and you will hurt velocity. There is only so much you can get from handgun cartridges.
As far as bullet weight, same thing. Too heavy and it sheds velocity too fast. Too light and you end up with poor penetration. Those that hunt large, heavy boned animals go for hard cast bullets with large, flat meplats for max penetration. The speeds at which handgun bullets are moving at impact do not have the same high velocity shock of a rifle round so you need the bullet to go as deep as it can and stay together.
As far as bullet weight, same thing. Too heavy and it sheds velocity too fast. Too light and you end up with poor penetration. Those that hunt large, heavy boned animals go for hard cast bullets with large, flat meplats for max penetration. The speeds at which handgun bullets are moving at impact do not have the same high velocity shock of a rifle round so you need the bullet to go as deep as it can and stay together.
Very true, that. I stay within the bounds of my reloading manuals, and powder manufacterers website reloading data. There's some really nice "Ruger Only" loads out there from Hodgden that I've been playing with. They actually have a selection of 45 Colt loads in the rifle section as well. Good stuff.
As for hardness, I tend to run 12 - 13 BHN, up to about 15 BHN on occasion. I have played with some "oven tempered" and water dropped alloy for target loads in the 308 that were just shy of 30 BHN. Those are way to hard for a hunting bullet, but they do allow me to run them with great accuracy through my StG58 at paper. Hunting? They'd just blow up on impact. The alloy is 3% tin, 3% antimony, 94% lead with just a hint of copper in the alloy. That hangs together well when shooting my gas checked 350 grn rnfp's out of my 458. (at 2,600 fps, by chrony) In the 44, that same alloy hardly flattens out upon impact using my preferred 240 grn Keith bullet with a 60% meplat. The same bullet design for the 45 Colt goes 275 grn and so far, has done pretty much the same thing. Both scoot along at about 1,300 fps as loaded. Different powders and charges, of course. Hodgden has some really good load data on their site for both cartridges in rifle and handgun. The "Ruger Only" data is interesting. There's a couple of those listed powders that I won't touch. I mean seriously, half a grain between min and max charges? I scale to a tenth of a grain when reloading, but that's cutting it close.
There is only so much that you can get from a handgun cartridge, but it should be sufficient for my needs.
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