I wouldn't hire you either. Any cabinet maker worth his weight in screws never forgets to put in the faucet at the sink.
Fuck off. That's the plumber's job.
I need more help (employees 101)
- Thread starter AndyG
- Start date
Fuck off. That's the plumber's job.
Seems like chronic pot smoking was the core issue of his behavior.
Marijuana used infrequently is harmless, but because it has zero negative physiological side effects, besides red eyes, it can become easy to start using it everyday which will cause emotional detachment from real world events, hence the bad moods and outbursts out of nowhere.
Anyway, cool story bro, I can't speak to to dealing with bad employees because I've never been an employer. But what I can speak to as being an employee who has walked out of several jobs without notice is that bad employees will deliberately chase good employees away. Maybe they're trying to eliminate what they see as competition.
Most employers pay market value for their labor, AKA competitive wages. The problem with paying your employees competitive wages is that you will have competition for their labor from other employers, and it only takes literally one incident where the boss or one of his senior employees offends the sensibilities of a good employee for them to quit and jump ship to your competition. Smart employers would rather not have to repeatedly focus on interviewing and training applicants to replace employees who quit and so they pay their employees well above market value for their labor.
I've had to deal with employers, who all told me I was a valued asset mind you, do ridiculous shit like track my bathroom breaks, write me up for being 10 seconds late, or even make vague threats like, "I'm gonna get you, you'll see." I've even had one supervisor, who was always very vocal about what a good Christian he is, threaten me when I mentioned in casual conversation that I sleep in on Sundays. This is the culture of a bad employer.
Here's the deal with that: The employer/employee relationship is fundamentally antagonistic in that the employee wants money but doesn't want to work while the employer wants to maximize the value of the labor force but doesn't want to pay them. The two parties come to a compromise and settle on specific job responsibilities and pay. Bad employees will slack off, show up late, and cause trouble because working sucks, while bad employers tend to try to rig the work culture so they can get away with paying lower wages to their labor staff. One of the most common things a bad employer will do is try to convince a good employee that he is in trouble and that he has to prove himself by accepting 'not getting in trouble with the boss' in lieu of money as payment for his labor. This inevitably leads to companies having high turnover rates because employees can't pay their rent and buy food with notes from their boss saying what good boys they have been. They need money to live, no other form of payment will do.
You seem like the kind of business owner that has his head on straight in terms of how you negotiate with your workers. The majority of employers absolutely suck and will try to play narcissistic games with their workers to get an edge. In the future, when you higher an experienced guy who has long work history you have to realize that he is going to have a prejudice towards you as being someone who plays mind games, so one of your first priorities should be to convince your new hires that you're not like their previous bosses and that you intend to treat them fairly.
Marijuana used infrequently is harmless, but because it has zero negative physiological side effects, besides red eyes, it can become easy to start using it everyday which will cause emotional detachment from real world events, hence the bad moods and outbursts out of nowhere.
Anyway, cool story bro, I can't speak to to dealing with bad employees because I've never been an employer. But what I can speak to as being an employee who has walked out of several jobs without notice is that bad employees will deliberately chase good employees away. Maybe they're trying to eliminate what they see as competition.
Most employers pay market value for their labor, AKA competitive wages. The problem with paying your employees competitive wages is that you will have competition for their labor from other employers, and it only takes literally one incident where the boss or one of his senior employees offends the sensibilities of a good employee for them to quit and jump ship to your competition. Smart employers would rather not have to repeatedly focus on interviewing and training applicants to replace employees who quit and so they pay their employees well above market value for their labor.
I've had to deal with employers, who all told me I was a valued asset mind you, do ridiculous shit like track my bathroom breaks, write me up for being 10 seconds late, or even make vague threats like, "I'm gonna get you, you'll see." I've even had one supervisor, who was always very vocal about what a good Christian he is, threaten me when I mentioned in casual conversation that I sleep in on Sundays. This is the culture of a bad employer.
Here's the deal with that: The employer/employee relationship is fundamentally antagonistic in that the employee wants money but doesn't want to work while the employer wants to maximize the value of the labor force but doesn't want to pay them. The two parties come to a compromise and settle on specific job responsibilities and pay. Bad employees will slack off, show up late, and cause trouble because working sucks, while bad employers tend to try to rig the work culture so they can get away with paying lower wages to their labor staff. One of the most common things a bad employer will do is try to convince a good employee that he is in trouble and that he has to prove himself by accepting 'not getting in trouble with the boss' in lieu of money as payment for his labor. This inevitably leads to companies having high turnover rates because employees can't pay their rent and buy food with notes from their boss saying what good boys they have been. They need money to live, no other form of payment will do.
You seem like the kind of business owner that has his head on straight in terms of how you negotiate with your workers. The majority of employers absolutely suck and will try to play narcissistic games with their workers to get an edge. In the future, when you higher an experienced guy who has long work history you have to realize that he is going to have a prejudice towards you as being someone who plays mind games, so one of your first priorities should be to convince your new hires that you're not like their previous bosses and that you intend to treat them fairly.
DuckNut
TJ Enthusiast
Fuck off. That's the plumber's job.
Laughed out loud on that one.
PS: the cabinet maker IS also the plumber in this case.
Fuck off. That's the plumber's job.
That's what we electricians would say when someone complained to us that the shit pump wasn't working. Except we called them (lovingly of course
) turd wranglers.
Thanks- very much. I have paid for their parents funerals, but kids school clothes, delivered medicine, you name it. Loaned money, given money, given extended time off and complete schedule flexibility.
I have tried.
Yes, he was and is a weed addict. Needs it to function or handle the stress...he creates. That is his game really. It justifies the need for weed. Blow up, raise he double hockey stick and the get a buzz to calm down.
I have even told them I cant stop the weed use and wont try- just dont let anyone smell it - me included. In other words don't be completely stupid.
I want everyone to win. The workers need a job they can stand and a livable wage. The client needs and pays for good performance. The company has to profit so we can all keep doing it. At timed I feel like its a fantasy to do all that, all the time.
One concern with my work is you can become hypercritical because mistakes increase as sales increase and you lose sight of all the good things.
I am making a real effort to stay kind, compassionate and at the same time not just tolerate anything.
I’m in no position to bail or retire and no current intention-
Right now my main goal is to create a clear, specific vision for 2025 and make it a reality, enjoy some quality time off and make sure I rest, eat well and be the husband, dad, friend and employer I should be.
I also hope you know when to let it go, going to bed, knowing you did everything thing you could and should as an employer and decent person. (And I mean this in a good way)
I had someone in my startup days, her dad was dying in the hospital. I paid her 100% salary for 3mo while she took care of her dad, hospice, and then his passing. No FMLA paperwork, no 60% salary BS. Fast forward two years as the business grew, she couldn’t cut it. I got angry calls from clients, from co-workers, I tried coaching her, covering for her, etc but it was no longer working and it was time for her to go but I struggled, I knew she had been doing work for me as her father was dying. A friend helped me realize I had done everything possible and more as an employer, friend, and decent person. It was time to let her go, nothing more could be done to save her or her job.
In the words of Kenny Rogers
You've got to know when to hold 'em
Know when to fold 'em
Know when to walk away
And know when to run
Unfortunately, it doesn’t make it any easier.
Well said. I have found my off switch(es) ....one of them is why I am on here. The other one looks like a fishing rod.
I used to be ate up- now I do a good bit better-
But it is sort of like the parenting adage with several children - you can end up as happy as your happiest employee or client if you aren’t careful.
I won’t be bashful- I like to be on top. I like to know that I’m doing a great job. I like the rewards. I like seven letters on the hood that say Rubicon.
I have bit the dirt more than once in my life and I really don’t want to do it again.
So yes I care about how it all goes at the same time if it kills you it doesn’t matter.
Thank you for your straightforward honesty.
Truthfully some of the best advice is when it comes to employees that are not working out is to sweep quickly and clean.
I have gone a lot of extra miles on roads that I shouldn’t have been on.
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DuckNut
TJ Enthusiast
As I have said before...human capital is your greatest expense.
I feel there is a wave of people heading towards the "trades" businesses.
Someone on here said it before, this kid could not get away from the trailer park mentality. One thing we will be trying this year is to try to recruit kids from upbringings in the higher social classes. I feel there are a bunch of kids looking to do good things that won't have them working 12 days 7 days a week like their dads did. This group has higher self esteem, higher self worth and above average intelligence.
Years ago I had an an exceptionally bright kid working for me (PhD in artificial intelligence). He struggled for a long time, too long in reality and one day I was brutally honest with him. I told him to stop thinking with his wallet. I believe, that was the last time this kid struggled. He ended up being the fourth largest shareholder when I esop'ed my company to the employees. Otherwise, the receptionist would have owned more.
I feel there is a wave of people heading towards the "trades" businesses.
Someone on here said it before, this kid could not get away from the trailer park mentality. One thing we will be trying this year is to try to recruit kids from upbringings in the higher social classes. I feel there are a bunch of kids looking to do good things that won't have them working 12 days 7 days a week like their dads did. This group has higher self esteem, higher self worth and above average intelligence.
Years ago I had an an exceptionally bright kid working for me (PhD in artificial intelligence). He struggled for a long time, too long in reality and one day I was brutally honest with him. I told him to stop thinking with his wallet. I believe, that was the last time this kid struggled. He ended up being the fourth largest shareholder when I esop'ed my company to the employees. Otherwise, the receptionist would have owned more.
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