Injury from soft shackle failure

@ChadH and @MikeE024

The fact that both of you need so much verbiage to explain your relative positions on a subject that has already been discussed ad nauseam suggests that neither of you know what you are talking about or that both of you have an insatiable need to be right about something.

Reading canned food labels is more entertaining.
 
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Mr. Bills said:
Reading canned food labels is more entertaining.
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I think a key component of the issue needs to be addressed. All of the recovery gear from the finest manufacturers is still subject to human error. I know that several have mentioned this, but I feel that it has fallen out of the scope of focus.

I don't know as much as others, and I don't have the varied experience as many.

So far I believe why I am still alive and have prevented injury is because I take my time and listen to my buddies before plowing ahead. We have a good group of level headed guys that do not take their egos onto the trail. No one knows everything and each of us are open to constructive criticism. We have found ourselves in some dicey situations, but more importantly we have prevented some dangerous situations.

There have been times where we have taken all of the precautions possible, but due to weather, mechanical failure, trail conditions, etc. sometimes we have to make some difficult choices. Do your best to find sincere people to wheel and go exploring with.
 
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Mr. Bills said:
@ChadH and @MikeE024

The fact that both of you need so much verbiage to explain your relative positions on a subject that has already been discussed ad nauseam suggests that neither of you know what you are talking about or that both of you have an insatiable need to be right about something.
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I provided my reasoning for why his analogy doesn’t work. Thanks for your valuable feedback.

Mr. Bills said:
Reading canned food labels is more entertaining.
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I’m not concerned with how entertaining it was for you.
 
Mr. Bills said:
@ChadH and @MikeE024

The fact that both of you need so much verbiage to explain your relative positions on a subject that has already been discussed ad nauseam suggests that neither of you know what you are talking about or that both of you have an insatiable need to be right about something.

Reading canned food labels is more entertaining.
Click to expand...

Its a shame so many old grumps on here insist on being a jerk instead of actually having good conversation.
 
Feel like I've posted this somewhere here before but could just be my aging brain. Anyway...

I don't go where some of you do with my Jeep, so I've never really had to worry about recovery. That said, I've pulled a lot of things with cables, chains and straps in my time. A pretty simple method to help prevent human or vehicle damage when winching, pulling or snatching is to throw heavy blankets over the runs. These will act as dampers if the chain, cable or strap snaps, taking the worst of the energy out of the pulling medium when it converts from potential to kinetic.

If blankets don't suit you, a couple of these will do ya...

https://www.amazon.com/s?k=winch+damper&language=en_US&crid=1Z13VCA6Z1I75&sprefix=winch+dampe,aps,102&ref=as_li_ss_tl&tag=wranglerorg-20
 
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steelhd said:
Myth.
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Really? I can't speak to the winch dampers but the blankets do work, of that I can assure you through real-world experience....so maybe not myth. But you do you, believe what you like. I'll stick with what I know. ;)
 
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steelhd said:
Everybody has to believe in something.
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Indeed, Mr. Know-It-All. Only difference here is I have first-hand experience and you have yet to say a single thing to back up your statement. So instead of ignorant responses, maybe you should step up and back up your statement....maybe read a physics book, or maybe just cork it since you're actually talking out your ass. That would be fact, not myth. We both know it.

Some morons think the earth is flat, you seem to believe something I've actually experienced more than once is a myth... :ROFLMAO:
 
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chili_pepper said:
Indeed, Mr. Know-It-All. Only difference here is I have first-hand experience and you have yet to say a single thing to back up your statement. So instead of ignorant responses, maybe you should step up and back up your statement....maybe read a physics book, or maybe just cork it since you're actually talking out your ass. That would be fact, not myth. We both know it.

Some morons think the earth is flat, you seem to believe something I've actually experienced more than once is a myth... :ROFLMAO:
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The first problem with blankets and dampers is that you do not know where the rope or cable will break for you to know where best to hang the damper.

The second problem is that the recoiling rope will pass right through the damper like the magic table cloth trick. Nothing gets tangled in the damper.
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The best option continues to be reducing the mass of the rigging with lighter materials.
 
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jjvw said:
The first problem with blankets and dampers is that you do not know where the rope or cable will break for you to know where best to hang the damper.
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Again, can't speak to the dampers, never used them. But the blankets do not need to be located at the break to serve their purpose.

jjvw said:
The second problem is that the recoiling rope will pass right through the damper like the magic table cloth trick. Nothing gets tangled in the damper.
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This may very well be true for the dampers. This is not my experience with blankets.
 
chili_pepper said:
Again, can't speak to the dampers, never used them. But the blankets do not need to be located at the break to serve their purpose.



This may very well be true for the dampers. This is not my experience with blankets.
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Whatever you have or haven't seen changes nothing about the foundational premise that reducing the weight of the rigging will always improve the safety in the event of a failure. Do that first and then you can drape any makeshift wishful thinking parachute you want to over the rope.
 
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jjvw said:
Whatever you have or haven't seen changes nothing about the foundational premise that reducing the weight of the rigging will always improve the safety in the event of a failure. Do that first and then you can drape any makeshift parachute you want to over the rope.
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To be clear, and in reference to my original post, I am not speaking specifically to 4x4 recovery. I'm talking about the physics involved where you have a pulling force, an object being pulled and a flexible connection between them under high tension with the potential for failure. While there may well be merit in reducing the weight of the rigging (and in fact doing so would make the dampening medium even more effective), I am speaking to the damping effect. A lighter weight rig alone can still do serious damage if it cuts loose.

You can say what you like, mock as you will, but I've dealt with pulling forces much greater than you're going to experience recovering a 4x4 on an offroad trail with your winch, strap or rope. Again, I can guarantee you that heavy blankets work in killing the kinetic energy, enough so to greatly reduce or eliminate the possibility of damage to human and vehicle alike. I'm here today alive, fully functional and with all the bits I was born with (save for a foreskin) because I used blankets for this very purpose. Believe me or not, I don't really give a shit. It happened, it's real. You can test if for yourself if you like, but I suspect there won't be any takers in the group.

So with that said, you'll likely be happy to know I'm done responding to this thread and repeating myself. Do what you like, believe what you like, it's your life and your vehicle.
 
chili_pepper said:
Indeed, Mr. Know-It-All. Only difference here is I have first-hand experience and you have yet to say a single thing to back up your statement. So instead of ignorant responses, maybe you should step up and back up your statement....maybe read a physics book, or maybe just cork it since you're actually talking out your ass. That would be fact, not myth. We both know it.

Some morons think the earth is flat, you seem to believe something I've actually experienced more than once is a myth... :ROFLMAO:
Click to expand...
Bad day with a little sand or hot sauce in your mangina? Ive witnessed failures with both chains and wire ropes in industrial settings. The two wire ropes didn't spring back hard and I assume its because the individual strands break over a short period of time resulting in a slower energy release. One chain and one wire rope problem were because an attachment point failed releasing all the energy almost instantly. Everything including steel attachment material was hurled through the air. Both were violent enough to be very dangerous and no blanket or other bullshit was going to stop them. As a matter of fact back in the day I was trained to wrap a wad of heavy chain in the middle of the chain under tension, Guess what it did? Nothing useful. Never mind the fact that you have to choose where to put the blanket, chain, damper. If it is on the wrong end it does literally nothing. If its in the middle it doesn't do much better.

A physics book? You are shitting me. Here is some physics for you. F=MA and the energy involved with the type of failure you are talking about (for some reason you moved the goal posts to some kind of industrial or other failure as opposed to a 4x4 recover situation which is what we discuss here) is far greater than what can be absorbed by a blanket. More physics for you. Which falls faster when released at the same time ... a bullet fired level from a gun or a coat with a pocket full of rocks? The answer is they both fall to the ground at 32 ft/s2 (in a vacuum of course but for the distances we are talking the difference is insignificant).

I know you think you understand what you witnessed and I know you think a blanket saved your life. Don't bet your life on it and don't encourage anyone else to do it either.
 
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steelhd said:
Bad day with a little sand or hot sauce in your mangina? Ive witnessed failures with both chains and wire ropes in industrial settings. The two wire ropes didn't spring back hard and I assume its because the individual strands break over a short period of time resulting in a slower energy release. One chain and one wire rope problem were because an attachment point failed releasing all the energy almost instantly. Everything including steel attachment material was hurled through the air. Both were violent enough to be very dangerous and no blanket or other bullshit was going to stop them. As a matter of fact back in the day I was trained to wrap a wad of heavy chain in the middle of the chain under tension, Guess what it did? Nothing useful. Never mind the fact that you have to choose where to put the blanket, chain, damper. If it is on the wrong end it does literally nothing. If its in the middle it doesn't do much better.

A physics book? You are shitting me. Here is some physics for you. F=MA and the energy involved with the type of failure you are talking about (for some reason you moved the goal posts to some kind of industrial or other failure as opposed to a 4x4 recover situation which is what we discuss here) is far greater than what can be absorbed by a blanket. More physics for you. Which falls faster when released at the same time ... a bullet fired level from a gun or a coat with a pocket full of rocks? The answer is they both fall to the ground at 32 ft/s2 (in a vacuum of course but for the distances we are talking the difference is insignificant).

I know you think you understand what you witnessed and I know you think a blanket saved your life. Don't bet your life on it and don't encourage anyone else to do it either.
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Did it take you since last Sunday to come up with that horseshit? Ya know, you're gums keep flapping but all I'm getting over here is hot air, no substance. Always gonna be at least one clown like you who's convinced himself he's right even when he's not, something I suspect you do daily. But hey, perception's 99% reality, so everything's right as rain in your world, eh? 🤣
 
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