Insulation for extreme cold?

[Nayabay]

I live in Northwest Territories, Canada. Temps can get down to -55°C / -67°F in the winter. My ‘03 has always had everything it needs in terms of winterization EXCEPT the cabin. Driving in the deep of winter with the heat blasting (rad covered with cardboard of course, northern speciality) isn’t enough warmth, even while wearing the usual everyday winter getup/spacesuit.

I replaced my door handles the other day and noticed there is a healthy volume of space between the panel and the outer door. I also have the rear bench seat out and very rarely have a co-pilot next to me so I have a lot of real estate for padding/insulation in those areas too.

I have a hard top, ripe for the insulating.

The drain plugs are in, insulating the floor wells/transmission tunnel will be critical. (This is huge because I can feel the ice air on my right hand while shifting.)

I spend about a quarter tank of gas per week idling just to get it warm enough to drive. If I were to idle it long enough to also heat up the interior, I’d probably be burning almost half .

Looking for effective (hopefully budget friendly) ways to insulate for the extreme temps. Bonus if it’s easily removable as we’ve had some insane heat waves in recent years too.

 

[06TJ35's]

Not sure how much it would help but you can try a windjammer from Bestop

 

[KingCarGuyZ]

Theres quite a few ways to insulate the TJ's - on here theres a thread about "how to sound deaden your jeep" that could be helpful. I imagine you are trying to do about the exact opposite of me. I have a similar problem with heat leaking in during these 110* days and my A/C not keeping up.

I would start by checking door and hardtop seals - i have had mine go bad several times and require replacement. Check the inner shift boot (not the one you can see from the drives seat, theres one between the tub and the shifter). I have had several of these go bad and leak air into the cabin like crazy.

From there I would move to the more in-depth insulation. on my build thread there is a post on hardtop insulation with Noico red 180 mil or similar. That would be the largest difference as you are loosing (or gaining) a lot of heat through the thin hardtop. From there I would put Noico 80 mil and or Noico 100 red in the doors and do the WHOLE cabin. If you are insulating for sound, you only need about 70-80% coverage. For temperature 100% is much more beneficial. Look into some heavy pile interior carpet which will also help a ton with the heat and noise.

I would also confirm your heater core isn't clogged and maybe consider trading it out with a brass unit (hell of a job) I have also had some air leaks where the heater core passes from the engine bay into the cab, these can be sealed with your fav. expanding foam.

The boots and seals will be fairly cheap. The carpet and insulation will be expensive and time consuming. These jeeps weren't really designed to the environmental isolation of todays vehicles. They are more of a top down doors off kinda cruiser. You will never be as warm and quiet as you will be in say a 2025 ram 1500, but it can get much better than it is.

 

[macleanflood]

Heated seats.

And someone figure out how to do a heated steering wheel.

-Mac

 

[gasiorv]

Like Mac recommend, heated seats will go along way. Dorman makes a universal kit that is easy to install and works good. I know down here you can get the universal kit from AutoZone, O'Reilly's and Summit racing. For insulation, look at 3M thinsulate insulation that they use for camper vans, it is mildew and mold resistant if it gets wet which it will from the hot/cold and your breath in the winter and then if you ever take doors or top off in summer. Put the insulation right against the sheet metal under the carpet and then fill the doors.

 

[NDSpeed]

Have you researched into cabin heaters,

 

[Nayabay]

Have you researched into cabin heaters,

I have, but I’m more interested in heat retention.

i.e. keeping a box warm vs. re-heating a box repeatedly

 

[B1Toad]

Just taping/hanging a sheet of heavy plastic between the front and back will help a lot. I bought one of these when I had my TDI which took forever to warm up on a cold morning, it worked great and heated up in under a minute. I only used it on low it worked so well. Course it only gets down to the 30s here usually. This one is NLA but they have others. I may put it in my Jeep this winter although the Jeep heats up a lot faster than the TDI.

 

[Rickyd]

I live in Northwest Territories, Canada. Temps can get down to -55°C / -67°F in the winter. My ‘03 has always had everything it needs in terms of winterization EXCEPT the cabin. Driving in the deep of winter with the heat blasting (rad covered with cardboard of course, northern speciality) isn’t enough warmth, even while wearing the usual everyday winter getup/spacesuit.

I replaced my door handles the other day and noticed there is a healthy volume of space between the panel and the outer door. I also have the rear bench seat out and very rarely have a co-pilot next to me so I have a lot of real estate for padding/insulation in those areas too.

I have a hard top, ripe for the insulating.

The drain plugs are in, insulating the floor wells/transmission tunnel will be critical. (This is huge because I can feel the ice air on my right hand while shifting.)

I spend about a quarter tank of gas per week idling just to get it warm enough to drive. If I were to idle it long enough to also heat up the interior, I’d probably be burning almost half .

Looking for effective (hopefully budget friendly) ways to insulate for the extreme temps. Bonus if it’s easily removable as we’ve had some insane heat waves in recent years too.

If you feel cold air coming up around the shifter i suggest pulling up the shift boot and seeing if the seal underneath it that keeps out the elements is torn. It is a common issue.

You have carpet, right? Insulating under it couldn't hurt. And inside the doors

 

[TheBoogieman]

Option #2 for -67F temps.

 

[GoldenGorilla]

I live in CO so only see temps down to -20°F or so but up over 100°F in summer. I never found the heater or AC lacking since new, but -67 is a different beast. I would not recommend installing this stuff until summer or stored in a heated garage for a couple days though as the adhesives will probably not work correctly below freezing.

I shared alot of the detail in my build thread

I have a Boom Mat on the hardtop for sound deadening, but it also massively improves the warmth in winter and keeps the heat down in summer. Unfortunately the TJ version doesn't have the side panels included in the LJ version.

I've done alot of sound deadening in my tub as well and all of that keeps the temps more balanced as well. The thin closed cell foam in particular under the carpets helps in that regard. I also lined the inside of the door cards with this closed cell foam.

I think the egg crate foam behind the top edge of the dash against the windsheild woud benefit you as well.

And finally, the seat heaters weren't difficult to install.

 

[PCO6]

This isn't quite what you're looking for but I thought you might find what this XJ owner does in Swedish winters interesting. He has several winter camping videos and ones that show how he has modified his XJ for winter use. In this one he added a diesel heater to the front of the vehicle to warm up the diesel engine for start ups and to heat his cabin and roof top tent.


View: %5BURL%5Dhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWj0rGRWJ-o[/URL]

I camp in the cold with my XJ and have slept in it. I live in central Ontario where it's not close to the temperatures you're talking about. I use a diesel heater but it sits outside of the vehicle. I've had good experiences with it but as Mike from Workshop to Wilderness says do NOT rely on a diesel heater as they can fail.

 

[WestCoastDan]

I suspect that you already have an inline block heater and you plug the vehicle in over night. Which type do you have, the one on the heater line or the electric dipstick to keep the oil from turning into a brick?
If you have the water line version, crack open your defroster so that the heat generated will help to keep the windshield clear.
If you only have the oil heater, consider adding the other type as well.

I'd start with heated seats to get direct improvement where it matters... on your bum.
Down here in SoCal, we don't get those types of temps, but a chilly night on the freeway w/o doors or top can be uncomfortable without them.

There are easy to install versions that go over the existing seats instead of needing to be installed under the upholstery. My previous setup was a pair of neoprene seat covers from Wet Okole that had built in heaters that you could plug right into the 12V outlet or cig lighter port.

Good luck, the cold is coming fast that far north.

 

[WestCoastDan]

Not sure how much it would help but you can try a windjammer from Bestop

View attachment 707312

Obviously this would be installed WITH the hardtop to reduce the cabin size as far as heating goes.

 

[PCO6]

I suspect that you already have an inline block heater and you plug the vehicle in over night. Which type do you have, the one on the heater line or the electric dipstick to keep the oil from turning into a brick?
If you have the water line version, crack open your defroster so that the heat generated will help to keep the windshield clear.
If you only have the oil heater, consider adding the other type as well.

I'd start with heated seats to get direct improvement where it matters... on your bum.
Down here in SoCal, we don't get those types of temps, but a chilly night on the freeway w/o doors or top can be uncomfortable without them.

There are easy to install versions that go over the existing seats instead of needing to be installed under the upholstery. My previous setup was a pair of neoprene seat covers from Wet Okole that had built in heaters that you could plug right into the 12V outlet or cig lighter port.

Good luck, the cold is coming fast that far north.

Regarding block heaters, I've read that all Jeeps sold in Canada come with a block heater. That might be true but it might also be a myth. I've owned 1 CJ, 1 TJ, 1 LJ, 3 XJs, 2 MJs and 1 WK. The only one that did not have a block heater was my 69 CJ. It was only a few years old when I got it and that might have been how they were sold back then. I don't know if Jeeps destined for cold States automatically got block heaters but they might have.

 

[sab]

The OP lives in one of the coldest places on earth. I'm sure, especially given this statement, that the TJ has either a block heater (which heats the coolant in the water jacket), an oil heater (either through the dipstick tube or a pad on the oil pan), or both:

My ‘03 has always had everything it needs in terms of winterization EXCEPT the cabin.

While not as cold as the OP's area, when we lived in Roseau, we saw -35°F to -40°F every winter we lived there. The lowest temp I experienced was -54°F. The Polaris parking lot had 120VAC outlets for everyone to plug their block heaters in while at work. Everyone had them, and everyone understood their importance.

The issue about which this thread was posted isn't cold starting, it's keeping the cabin warm while driving. The OP mentioned blocking the radiator, which is common practice, too, in those frigid environments. You want engine cooling to be done only through the heater core when it's that cold because the radiator efficiency is incredible at those temps.

If the engine is at operating temperature, and the heater core isn't outputting enough heat to the cabin, the two sources of heat loss to attack are air leaks and insulation. Both have been discussed in this thread. That's what I would concentrate on. Find the air leaks and fix them, and insulate the cold surfaces.

Lots of good suggestions in this thread, but the one area I've not seen addressed is the the side windows of the hardtop. They frost over in the winter because there's no direct heat source to de-ice them, and they are a huge source of heat loss. Since they can't be seen out of, I'd suggest covering those with insulation.

 

[freedom_in_4low]

Not sure how much it would help but you can try a windjammer from Bestop

View attachment 707312

That would absolutely help. You're cutting both the volume needing heat and the surface area losing heat approximately in half. Should quadruple the ability to heat the remaining cabin space. Especially if it's well-insulated and extended all the way to the hard top interior, but even with the gaps around the roll bar it would be a lot better than nothing because it'll reduce the delta across the rear section of the hard top, reducing the total heat loss from the cabin.

-barrier behind front seats
-insulate hard top, doors, floor and tub sides
-make sure everything is sealed up (weather strip, lower shift boots, etc)
-insulating firewall would help but is a PITA, may not be needed with the other changes mentioned.
-modify HVAC controls for direct manual control of recirc door (so you heat already-heated cabin air instead of cold exterior air from the cowl)

I think these mods will make a dramatic improvement.

 

[WestCoastDan]

Revamping that recirc option for the heat sounds like a good plan.

My point regarding the block heater had nothing to do with cold starts… never even mentioned that.

My point was that if the OP has the one that heats the water in the block, it will also elevate the interior temp of the cabin IF the defrost vents in the dash are left open. If they have the oil-heating version, it will not impact the interior temps OR help keep the windshield clear.