What's moving exactly? That track bar should be rock solid. This may be your issue.
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JKS front adjustable trackbar issue
- Thread starter skrelnik
- Start date
It takes very little force from the steering gear to move just the knuckles when it is on jack stands. So little in fact that if you unlock the steering wheel, you can move the knuckles by hand. Put the weight of the rig on them makes it a wholly difference story. Add in some scrub for shallower back spacing and the force really goes up. Also why lots of folks need to be moving a tiny bit to turn their steering wheel on difficult trails.
Thanks mrblaine as this got me thinking and researching.
Is it at a
Thanks mrblaine as this post got me thinking and researching.
I installed the replacement track bar bearing parts yesterday but did not install it yet. I took a step back to look at the front suspension and I clearly have negative camber, much more than I ever noticed.
Is it at all possible that when I installed the ZJ tie rod, ends and new TJ drag link that the set-up was off by a half inch and caused the track bar to fail? So when I turned the steering wheel to the far right, could that have pulled and shifted the axle, thus creating the weakest link in the track bar to fail, which is the snap ring? Or is this not likely at all?
I used to have the JKS front track bar and the Johnny joint seized up, I thought I had a bad shock and that was what was causing the noise I was hearing but it turned out to be the jj in the track bar. At any rate that seized jj elongated the 9/16" hole in the frame mount that the track bar mounts to. I looked around and found that Metalcloak uses a 5/8" bolt at the frame end, this made the repair much easier, I reamed out the elongated 9/16 to 5/8 (this made the hole round again) and installed the Metalcloak track bar and have not had any issues since.... Not a big fan of the JKS track bar, that JJ seized up in spite of being greased regularly.....
Gizmo
Member
you can replace the ball inside the JJ on the JKS with a Currie JJ track bar center with a 5/8" hole also.I did it as it don't require the little cone that the OE JKS uses to deal with the taper when its only drilled out to 9/16" and that end don't move any more . I prefer the MC bar over others because the pivot point is a better match with the drag link end pivot point at the pitman arm and also requires less bump stop than the Currie or JKS TB's . I use the MC on my other Jeep
I think this is the one I used, it was a long time ago .CE-91102TB1
I think this is the one I used, it was a long time ago .CE-91102TB1
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The JJ and the JKS trackbar had exactly zero to do with the hole elongating. It only elongated due to not being properly torqued and kept tight. I would run a quality 9/16" bolt of the appropriate grade in your new 5/8" hole all day every day and it would never loosen. If you don't believe that, just loosen your new larger bolt and see how long it takes to elongate the hole. Bolts only work when stretched appropriately enough to provide the proper clamping force to stabilize the joint. In fact, just yesterday, we installed a new front trackbar that had the axle side hole drilled out to 1/2". We used a stock size bolt in it and it is fine and will be fine because we torqued it correctly. Hole size is fairly irrelevant to the stability of the joint within reason.
You can toss that little cone, tighten the bolt and it won't move. The cone is just a feel good thing and has nothing to do with how well the joint works.
So if I am understanding you correctly, the bolt fitting "snugly" in the hole is irrelevant if the bolt is torqued correctly? Interesting, I would think that the horizontal force would be much more effectively dealt with if all the parts had little to no play, relying on the clamping force straight down on two horizontal mating surfaces would seem to be less secure than if the bolt that was creating said force actually fit the bore correctly.
As far as my elongated hole, I will respectfully disagree, the joint had seized, preventing the track bar from pivoting correctly and thereby exponentially increasing the horizontal load placed upon said joint. Every time the axle attempted to travel upwards the torque on the bolt was tremendous and led to the "wallowing out" of the hole. Even if it were torqued to spec, the spec would not take into account the increased load placed on the bolt due to the joints inability to pivot or move as designed. If this were not the case, why have any sort of pivot at all? Just put a bolt in and torque it to spec to withstand the load......
As far as my elongated hole, I will respectfully disagree, the joint had seized, preventing the track bar from pivoting correctly and thereby exponentially increasing the horizontal load placed upon said joint. Every time the axle attempted to travel upwards the torque on the bolt was tremendous and led to the "wallowing out" of the hole. Even if it were torqued to spec, the spec would not take into account the increased load placed on the bolt due to the joints inability to pivot or move as designed. If this were not the case, why have any sort of pivot at all? Just put a bolt in and torque it to spec to withstand the load......
IMO,that stupid tapered shim JKS uses to make you feel all warm and fuzzy causes the torque load of the frame bolt to decrease as it wears. Looking at the components that make up a JJ, properly greased, where or how could the joint seize?
99.9% of the bolts we have on the TJ operate purely in tension. The bolt being stretched by torqueing the nut generated tremendous clamping force between the faying surface. The clamp force and the resultant friction increase is what prevents the joint from failure. It doesn't matter how snug the fit is in the hole. You can take a perfectly machined hole, put a perfectly machined just slightly less than press fit bolt through it and if you don't tighten it, it will wallow out at exactly the same rate as a loose fit.
I don't think you understand the loads placed on those joints and why they don't move. You used a 9/16" bolt in that connection. The lower control arms use the same size bolt. What do you figure the comparative load is on the lower arm bolt that lives in a slot at the axle side is when you take a 35" tire and hit a big pot hole on the freeway at 70 mph is when related to what your trackbar bolt saw? That isn't taking into account that while JJ's can get dry and take a lot of force by hand to move, vehicular forces such as the axle moving up and down will absolutely destroy the urethane race long before it actually seizes. There simply isn't enough mechanical strength in the plastic to fully seize. It may seem that way when you try to move it by hand, but not really.
If it ever, and I mean ever gets to the point where there is any wear on that sleeve, then you have something else wrong. It is not a wear item and if it does see any wear, you have joint failure and you need to find out why.
Speaking about it in terms you just explained, that makes sense now. Whether that shim is in there or not make no difference provided the connection is torqued proper.
Gizmo
Member
My point was if you think that a 5/8" Bolt was a remedy as someone mentioned the MC bar used 5/8 save your money and just switch the center bar for a lot less money and use the bar you have. I could see mine move slightly with the 9/16 so its quite obvious a bolt that could provide more clamping force may stop the movement which it did , and has not been touched in years.
Properly torqued, and the shim cannot hold the JJ from mating with the frame bracket. If it does, than shim wear will be quick, and failure is certain.
I switched to the MC because it used a 5/8" bolt which is what I needed to correct the wallowed out hole caused, apparently, by an improperly torqued 9/16" bolt that is used in the JKS track bar. I did not know the 9/16" bolt could be replaced with a 5/8", otherwise I would have, more than likely, taken the less expensive route.
MrBlaine, thank you for that explanation, I have learned something today and it is only 0820!!
I can happily say the root of the issue has been found and problem resolved. When I installed the ZJ tie rod and new TJ drag link, the drag link sleeve was where the issue stemmed from. The drag link end was not in the sleeve enough, it was about a half inch short. Due to the drag link end being a half inch short inside of the sleeve, it shifted the drag link's connection point for the steering stabilizer a half inch closer to the passenger side. Due to this, when making a right turn the steering stabilizer would become fully compressed, so when turning the steering wheel all the way to the right the fully compressed steering stabilizer would knock the axle side bracket, the same axle side bracket that the track bar is connected to. Thus the track bar was being pulled and most likely caused the frame side's snap ring to pop.
Wow, learned a lot on this one. I assume this is a way to control camber since this drag link issue caused negative camber. I do not know if that is a proper way to adjust camber but I am back to normal after the fix.
@mrblaine - I was unable to get the washer into the track bar bushing housing, the one that sits between the bushing and snap ring. Is that an issue? If yes, how the heck do you get that much pressure on the washer to allow the snap ring to seat in the internal grooves? Some sort of special press? Any home depot methods possible?
Special thanks to Codaman for his post, and Jerry and Ohiopatriot for getting me thinking about this correctly.
https://wranglertjforum.com/threads/setting-toe-in-tell-me-my-theory-is-wrong.9372/
Wow, learned a lot on this one. I assume this is a way to control camber since this drag link issue caused negative camber. I do not know if that is a proper way to adjust camber but I am back to normal after the fix.
@mrblaine - I was unable to get the washer into the track bar bushing housing, the one that sits between the bushing and snap ring. Is that an issue? If yes, how the heck do you get that much pressure on the washer to allow the snap ring to seat in the internal grooves? Some sort of special press? Any home depot methods possible?
Special thanks to Codaman for his post, and Jerry and Ohiopatriot for getting me thinking about this correctly.
https://wranglertjforum.com/threads/setting-toe-in-tell-me-my-theory-is-wrong.9372/
We use a shop press to compress the urethane races enough to get the snap ring into the groove. You can do it with a chunk of all thread and some creative socket use. Remember, you are trying to squash the race so you need the side away from the groove to be working against the barrel of the JJ. Otherwise, you can compress the races and the groove still won't be fully exposed.
Have a look at the tool that currie sells and then figure out if you want to make it out of sockets you already own or if you want to buy theirs.
—
There must have been a time
when we could have said no.
—
There must have been a time
when we could have said no.