Setting toe-in (tell me my theory is wrong)

CodaMan

CodaMan

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I have been trying to get rid of this drift left in my Jeep for some time and have adjusted toe-in several times and have had it on an alignment rack a few times.

Currently my toe-in is at .20 total degrees, which is perfect, however, the right is at .20 and the left is at 0. So I need to get the right toed out and the left toed in. BTW Caster, Camber and Thrust Angles are all good.

Here's my theory ... when I installed the new steering the drag link it was installed to short. A short drag link would pull the toe in on the right when the steering wheel is centered. SO, if I were to lock the steering wheel at center and adjust the drag link adjusting sleeve to extend the drag link that would push the toe out on the right side where I could get it to .1 degrees. Then, with the steering wheel still locked at center I can adjust the adjusting sleeve on the right wheel to bring the left to .1 degrees for a total of .2 degrees with .1 degrees on each side.

Where am I wrong here or can someone tell me why all my toe-in is on one side?
 
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did you measure your old drag link and track bar vs the new equipment? How did they compare.

Mine was like spot on but after the install the alignment was slightly off so I corrected it. Now I think that is the reason my track bar failed when I turned the steering wheel to the far right, while leaving a parking space.

I am going to remeasure everything tomorrow and try to figure this out. But I do agree with your theory, but my agreement isn't worth jack-sh!t since I am a beginner in this topic.
 
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I don't think the drag link is your issue. Did you replace any tie-rods or other steering components? I made the bone head move of not squaring my axles after replacing almost all my front end steering. Even after setting toe-in 1/8", it took an alignment read to show me I was toed right on both ends (read .17 toe). I'm far from an expert, but learn as you go man. Easy fix, adjusted right tie-rod in about 4 turns, ran a string from rear wheels to the front to make sure it was in line, then adjust toe back to 1/8" in, and BAM! No more pulling and the vibrations are gone.
 
CodaMan said:
Where am I wrong here or can someone tell me why all my toe-in is on one side?
Click to expand...

It's not. You should adjust total toe, then center the steering wheel.

Does it actually drift/pull to one side or is the steering wheel off center and when you steer it straight it pulls?

Toe won't cause a pull.
 
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Are your axles square to the frame and parallel to each other?
 
CodaMan said:
Currently my toe-in is at .20 total degrees, which is perfect, however, the right is at .20 and the left is at 0. So I need to get the right toed out and the left toed in.
Click to expand...
They aren't separately adjustable like they are with an IFS. One tie-rod adjusts them both simultaneously. .30 total is what you want, or .15 per side. They would only be different if the steering was turned a little to one side.
 
ohiopatriot said:
It's not. You should adjust total toe, then center the steering wheel.

Does it actually drift/pull to one side or is the steering wheel off center and when you steer it straight it pulls?

Toe won't cause a pull.
Click to expand...

Steering wheel is straight, but if I let go it drifts pretty quickly to the left
 
Jerry Bransford said:
They aren't separately adjustable like they are with an IFS. One tie-rod adjusts them both simultaneously. .30 total is what you want, or .15 per side. They would only be different if the steering was turned a little to one side.
Click to expand...

OK, Just trying to wrap my head around this ... so let's say the steering wheel was straight and when the new drag link was installed it was installed on the short side and the right wheel was toed in to install it with the steering wheel remaining straight. What affect would that have on the geometry?
 
CodaMan said:
OK, Just trying to wrap my head around this ... so let's say the steering wheel was straight and when the new drag link was installed it was installed on the short side and the right wheel was toed in to install it with the steering wheel remaining straight. What affect would that have on the geometry?
Click to expand...
Rather than trying to figure out what you're saying, do this... drive up & back in the driveway so the tires are relatively straight ahead. They don't have to be precisely straight ahead, close is close enough. Set the toe-in by rotating the tie rod so the fronts of the tires are 1/16" to 1/8" closer together in front than in the rear. That will set your toe-in.

You can either carefully measure between the tires, or clamp 1" aluminum square tubes to the rotors as an easier and more repeatable way of measuring. Mark the tubes at points equal to your tire diameter and clamp the tube to the rotor so it is centered.

AlignmentCombinedVertical.jpg


Then adjust the drag link so the steering wheel is straight when you drive down the street. That'll take several iterations... leave the adjustment link bolts loose enough so it can be adjusted until the steering wheel is straight, then tighten them. Little adjustments work better than big adjustments here.
 
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Jerry Bransford said:
Rather than trying to figure out what you're saying, do this... drive up & back in the driveway so the tires are relatively straight ahead. They don't have to be precisely straight ahead, close is close enough. Set the toe-in by rotating the tie rod so the fronts of the tires are 1/16" to 1/8" closer together in front than in the rear. That will set your toe-in.

You can either carefully measure between the tires, or clamp 1" aluminum square tubes to the rotors as an easier and more repeatable way of measuring. Mark the tubes at points equal to your tire diameter and clamp the tube to the rotor so it is centered.

View attachment 33712

Then adjust the drag link so the steering wheel is straight when you drive down the street. That'll take several iterations... leave the adjustment link bolts loose enough so it can be adjusted until the steering wheel is straight, then tighten them. Little adjustments work better than big adjustments here.
Click to expand...

Excellent explanation. :thumbup:
 
Jerry Bransford said:
Rather than trying to figure out what you're saying, do this... drive up & back in the driveway so the tires are relatively straight ahead. They don't have to be precisely straight ahead, close is close enough. Set the toe-in by rotating the tie rod so the fronts of the tires are 1/16" to 1/8" closer together in front than in the rear. That will set your toe-in.

You can either carefully measure between the tires, or clamp 1" aluminum square tubes to the rotors as an easier and more repeatable way of measuring. Mark the tubes at points equal to your tire diameter and clamp the tube to the rotor so it is centered.

View attachment 33712

Then adjust the drag link so the steering wheel is straight when you drive down the street. That'll take several iterations... leave the adjustment link bolts loose enough so it can be adjusted until the steering wheel is straight, then tighten them. Little adjustments work better than big adjustments here.
Click to expand...


ohiopatriot said:
Excellent explanation. :thumbup:
Click to expand...

Agreed, but since the OP added a new drag link, the adjusting sleeve may be misaligned. Would that impact this, or would Jerry's explantion/recommendation rectify the situation?
 
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Jerry Bransford said:
Rather than trying to figure out what you're saying, do this... drive up & back in the driveway so the tires are relatively straight ahead. They don't have to be precisely straight ahead, close is close enough. Set the toe-in by rotating the tie rod so the fronts of the tires are 1/16" to 1/8" closer together in front than in the rear. That will set your toe-in.

You can either carefully measure between the tires, or clamp 1" aluminum square tubes to the rotors as an easier and more repeatable way of measuring. Mark the tubes at points equal to your tire diameter and clamp the tube to the rotor so it is centered.

View attachment 33712

Then adjust the drag link so the steering wheel is straight when you drive down the street. That'll take several iterations... leave the adjustment link bolts loose enough so it can be adjusted until the steering wheel is straight, then tighten them. Little adjustments work better than big adjustments here.
Click to expand...

Last question, I hope, before I try your suggestion. My total toe-in is OK right now, but when it's on the rack it shows that everything is shifted to the left (right at .20, left at 0). So, wouldn't holding the steering in center position and adjusting the drag link longer move both wheels to the right equally where the total toe can be split between both sides without affecting the .20 of total.
 
CodaMan said:
hmmmmm. So your saying that if the drag link was installed 4 inches short it wouldn't pull the right wheel in when the steering wheel is centered?
Click to expand...
It would pull both wheels to the side equally since the front tires are connected together by the tie rod.
 
CodaMan said:
hmmmmm. So your saying that if the drag link was installed 4 inches short it wouldn't pull the right wheel in when the steering wheel is centered?
Click to expand...

I think we are all saying the same thing, just differently. If you steered the wheels straight wouldn't the steering wheel be off center by alot?

With the tie rods adjusted and total toe set at spec both wheels would be turned right in your above scenario with the steering wheel straight.

The drag link doesn't adjust toe.

CodaMan said:
Last question, I hope, before I try your suggestion. My total toe-in is OK right now, but when it's on the rack it shows that everything is shifted to the left (right at .20, left at 0). So, wouldn't holding the steering in center position and adjusting the drag link longer move both wheels to the right equally where the total toe can be split between both sides without affecting the .20 of total.
Click to expand...

While on the rack steer ahead until both tires are at .10, then adjust drag link to center steering wheel.
 
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