Just Expect Extra Purchases

[AirborneTexasRanger]

Back to the TC, I’m still formulating my plan of attack. I know I want an Atlas, mostly because I have a lead foot & it seems to be very versatile but also strong enough that if I get bigger axles in the future then it won’t need to be replaced. My goal is to build the TJ up so I can tow it all over the country to traverse the different landscapes & take the kids camping. Currently I have 31s on the stock 30/35 setup w/ 3.07 gears. I’d like to keep the 30/35 setup but with upgraded components & reinforcements to run 33s. at least until I get the funds to play with the big boys.

Getting compatible components & the order I should install them in is where things start to get a but confusing.

For TC configuration is bigger always better? Meaning, if I get the lowest gear ratio, CV yoke, HD tail housing, etc. will this require completely replacing the axles or can I get away with stronger components?
Also, If I plan to re-gear, will I also need to replace the yoke or diff cover?
Upgrading the axles is something I’m aware of, but what will I need to make these changes?
Are bigger brakes a must have with a stronger TC & lower gear ratio?
If so, will larger calipers be enough or do I need a larger diameter rotor as well?
Can all this be done w/o doing the lift right now?

I’m not trying to cheap out or avoid extra work, I just don’t know what I don’t know. I’m diligently scanning this forum for knowledge so I don’t end up wasting time & money

 

[sab]

I'll take a stab at answering your questions based on the research I did on this site and on the Advance Adapters web site prior to ordering my Atlas from them (yesterday, by the way!). However, keep in mind that my knowledge is not based on actual experience (yet):

For TC configuration is bigger always better? Meaning, if I get the lowest gear ratio, CV yoke, HD tail housing, etc. will this require completely replacing the axles or can I get away with stronger components?

Not sure what your definition of "bigger" is, so I don't know how to answer the first question. As for the second question, I think you want the transfer case to be one of the stronger links in the drivetrain. If it breaks, it's not a quick, nor inexpensive, fix. From what I've read, the standard components in the Atlas case are strong enough for any reasonable TJ build (a 600hp engine on 42s would be unreasonable).

Also, If I plan to re-gear, will I also need to replace the yoke or diff cover?

No - but what is the reason you asked this question? It's unexpected to me.

Upgrading the axles is something I’m aware of, but what will I need to make these changes?

Upgrades are tied to engine torque (multiplied by the drivetrain) and tire size. When you upgrade those, you need to reconsider the strength of your drivetrain components.

Are bigger brakes a must have with a stronger TC & lower gear ratio?

I think bigger brakes have more to do with tire size because the tire radius affects torque required by the braking systems. With a low ratio transfer case, the torque multiplication will overwhelm most brakes, so it's a bit irrelevant. Brake size is more about stopping your rig without engine torque (put transmission in neutral for autos or depress the clutch pedal for manuals).

If so, will larger calipers be enough or do I need a larger diameter rotor as well?

Mr. Blaine's Big Brake Kit seems to be a very well thought out kit that is ideal for 35s, but can be overkill for small tire sizes.

Can all this be done w/o doing the lift right now?

With the Atlas, you'll likely need new or modified driveshafts (I think it depends on 2 speed or 4 speed and TJ or LJ). With a lift, you generally do, too. Therefore, I think doing both simultaneously is the best plan. However, having not done any of this yet on my LJ, I'll defer to other experienced forum members for better advice.

 

[AirborneTexasRanger]

Also, If I plan to re-gear, will I also need to replace the yoke or diff cover?
No - but what is the reason you asked this question? It's unexpected to me.

I ask because my thinking was that with a stronger TC, drive shafts, gears & axle shafts etc., would the pinion yoke become the weak point?
Also will a larger diff cover be needed to accommodate the larger gears?

 

[sab]

I ask because my thinking was that with a stronger TC, drive shafts, gears & axle shafts etc., would the pinion yoke become the weak point?

Ah, I understand now. I went with a flange 1300-series for the rear output, which accommodates 1310, 1330, and 1350 u-joints on the driveshaft. For the front, I went with a 1330, which should be good for "normal" engine torque and 35s, from what I've read. I feel like this one is a no-brainer - size up initially and then your build can "grow into it." There are concerns with maximum deflection angle with some of the choices, but I don't think that affects a reasonable build with up to 35" tires.

Also will a larger diff cover be needed to accommodate the larger gears?

No - the diameter of the ring gear stays fairly constant with ratio changes.

One final note - I spoke with a tech at Advance Adapters yesterday before I ordered, and he seemed pretty knowledgeable. I would give them a call to work through your questions, as they seem to really know their products.

 

[PNW_LJ]

I think bigger brakes have more to do with tire size because the tire radius affects torque required by the braking systems. With a low ratio transfer case, the torque multiplication will overwhelm most brakes, so it's a bit irrelevant. Brake size is more about stopping your rig without engine torque (put transmission in neutral for autos or depress the clutch pedal for manuals).

I believe the BMB Big Brake Kits can stop larger tire sizes even with the lowest available tcase ratios. Blaine can confirm or deny for sure tho.

With the Atlas, you'll likely need new or modified driveshafts (I think it depends on 2 speed or 4 speed and TJ or LJ). With a lift, you generally do, too. Therefore, I think doing both simultaneously is the best plan. However, having not done any of this yet on my LJ, I'll defer to other experienced forum members for better advice.

All that, plus setting the final belly height simultaneously is a good idea to save on driveshafts.

 

[PNW_LJ]

I ask because my thinking was that with a stronger TC, drive shafts, gears & axle shafts etc., would the pinion yoke become the weak point?

I know there are different schools of thought on "weak points".

My thinking right now, is that ideally I want the weak point to be the axle side driveshaft ujoint. Cheap fix, easy to access and replace on the trail.

 

[AirborneTexasRanger]

My thinking right now, is that ideally I want the weak point to be the axle side driveshaft ujoint. Cheap fix, easy to access and replace on the trail.

That makes sense to me & something I wasn't sure about. I feel like if something were to break I'd like to avoid as much collateral damage as possible.

All that, plus setting the final belly height simultaneously is a good idea to save on driveshafts.

That's the easy part as I can just fabricate my own skids & cross members

 

[Apparition]

I know there are different schools of thought on "weak points".

My thinking right now, is that ideally I want the weak point to be the axle side driveshaft ujoint. Cheap fix, easy to access and replace on the trail.

When I ordered my atlas I ordered it with all the upgrades I could for the reason that I can't see how it looks inside, can't easily fix it and I didn't want to be stranded on the trail.

I'll be running Blaine's F450 brakes on mine.

 

[AirborneTexasRanger]

Update #36

I've formulated my plan of attack for the atlas & regear just need to acquire the funds.....a lot of funds. In the meantime I'm using my time & materials on hand to work on fine tuning other things. Sorry in advance for the long post.

First up was an electrical issue with the taillights. When I installed Claytone's reverse lights I noticed that the turn signals & brake lights received power from the same wire. Normally this wouldn't be a problem but I converted my 3 wire domestic taillights to 4 wire export taillights because I prefer the look. I thought I had solved this issue before the move, but apparently not. I knew that somewhere the switches for the turn signals & brake pedal must be connected, but I couldn't figure out where. I unraveled the tape all the way from the lights to underneath the dash but I got lost in all the wiring under there. A quick Google search brought me to the other forum that discussed this same dilemma & suggested cutting the wire to the brake pedal. This didn't sit well with me so I tried to verify this information & my hesitation was correct. I found the answer I was looking for on this forum & should have started my search here in the first place.

https://wranglertjforum.com/threads...us-tjs-without-having-to-run-new-wires.18771/

Turns out that the brake light wire (white & brown stripe) connects to the multifunction switch. I was able to locate & de pin that wire from the connector. Side note, I learned how to pin & de pin connectors when I installed the OEM trail camera on my Gladiator. A very satisfying project that I hope to replicate on the TJ. I wanted to be able to put everything back together if this didn't work. I tested the new wire set up to make sure it works & it was a success. Also discovered that there's a relay on the back of the multifunction switch that can be changed out to prevent hyper flashing when you convert to LEDs.

https://wranglertjforum.com/threads/which-led-flasher-relay-do-i-need.64101/

Unfortunately I also I broke the lense covers when I initially installed them so those got replaced also. Currently the driver's side is all done, but the passenger side is still waiting on the license plate lights so they can get wired up all together. Also ordered the front & rear cameras so that's going in next weekend...hopefully.

I ended up mounting the license plate on the left side of the spare tire carrier. The camera will go under the 3rd brake light tucked up inside the arched plate to hopefully provide a little protection. I didn't want to zip tie a bunch of wires to the spare tire carrier. It took a lot of patience but I was able to route the 3rd brake light wire through the tube with only a little bit going from the carrier into the tub just beneath the lower hinge. I knew I was going to have to run more wires through there so I grabbed some 550 cord, fished it through & made a loop the help pull the wires through.

I forgot to mention earlier that when I installed the inverter I had to route the cables through the fire wall. I already had 2 holes there for the winch controller and didn't want it to look like Swiss cheese. I found some of these universal firewall boots that will prevent the sheet metal from damaging the wires & clean up that area a little bit.

Finally I pulled the driver's seat & back half of the center console to put the short cup holder cap on instead. I'm going to make an ammo can center console.

Thanks for checking out my build
-Daniel

 

[AirborneTexasRanger]

Update #36

Finally finished up all the wiring for the back end. There's a lot of connections behind the passenger taillight from the light itself, the license plate lights, third brake light & back up camera. Ideally I would like to have made a plug for all of the wires to avoid all the splicing and whatnot, but I'm beginning to realize what people mean by "You never get back what you put into it". Oh well, I just enjoy the little things that I can learn something from & get a sense of accomplishment.

My little set up of running the wires through the spare tire carrier worked a treat. I'm going to try to find something to plug the holes with. I'm thinking of some type of silicone roofing sealant. When I was connecting the cameras I noticed the defroster cover was cracked so I plastic welded the back side. While it was out I replaced the broken grill with some SS wire mesh I had leftover from the front cowl and rear vent.

Thanks for checking out my build.
Daniel

 

[AirborneTexasRanger]

Update #37

Completed the center console project. Started out with a 30 mm ammo can but modified to fit over the parking brake and the rear seats. My goal was to keep the lid the same so that I could keep the rubber gasket. Also made some aluminum trays that can be removed and maximize storage. I put some leftover edge guard to minimize the rattling of the trays.

Between paint coats I made a shift knob that looks like a bomb from a Looney Toons cartoon.

Thanks for checking out my build.
Daniel

 

[sab]

Stencils and all - very cool!

 

[AirborneTexasRanger]

Stencils and all - very cool!

Thanks, I tried to make it look authentic

 

[NashvilleTJ]

Update #37

Completed the center console project. Started out with a 30 mm ammo can but modified to fit over the parking brake and the rear seats. My goal was to keep the lid the same so that I could keep the rubber gasket. Also made some aluminum trays that can be removed and maximize storage. I put some leftover edge guard to minimize the rattling of the trays.

Between paint coats I made a shift knob that looks like a bomb from a Looney Toons cartoon.

Thanks for checking out my build.
Daniel

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Nice work on the console. That’s pretty cool.

 

[JMT]

Update #37

Completed the center console project. Started out with a 30 mm ammo can but modified to fit over the parking brake and the rear seats. My goal was to keep the lid the same so that I could keep the rubber gasket. Also made some aluminum trays that can be removed and maximize storage. I put some leftover edge guard to minimize the rattling of the trays.

Between paint coats I made a shift knob that looks like a bomb from a Looney Toons cartoon.

Thanks for checking out my build.
Daniel

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I hope that bomb doesn’t go off in your hand like in Looney Tunes!

Neat project.

 

[AirborneTexasRanger]

Update #38

With the Atlas order getting closer I wanted to get a few of the other upgrades I knew I would need to make. First up was body lift. I went with BMB and I'm VERY impressed with this product. You can definitely tell some thought went into making these. The bottom nests perfectly with the OEM pads and the tapered top helps guide it in place for easier bolt alignment. I also grabbed some MORE engine mounts that I still need to install but I'm waiting for the paint to dry.

Since I was lifting the body I went ahead and moved the spring brackets up to the peak of the frame arch. That was not simple. I wanted to reuse the same brackets and trying to surgically remove them with a plasma cutter was tedious and cramped. They turned out okay and since I plan on doing more welding under the Jeep I ordered a leather welding hood for to maneuver my head easier. Keen eyes will notice there's no shocks & that's because I'm planning on outboards. I'm glad I found this thread & I'll be doing this last as Blaine suggests. https://wranglertjforum.com/threads...k-notes-and-things-to-pay-attention-to.19921/. I've had some drops from a local fab shop & used them as control arm skids front & rear. They're cut outs from an 8" sch 40 pipe. I wasn't sure if I needed them in the rear, but I thought that boxing those brackets in couldn't hurt. Also it gives me a place to mount the shock tabs later.

Since I was lifting the body I decided to give it a Brazilian butt lift so I cut off the rear cross member. While it is off I decided that now would be a good time to clean out the inside of the frame. I bought a 15' Drain Cleaner & then I bought a pressure washer to hook it up to. I live in south Texas so I only see snow on the TV meaning there wasn't any rust inside the frame but a boat load of sand & mud. I also decided to plug weld the holes that were drilled from when I relocated the license plate & 3rd brake light.

Thanks for checking out my build.
Daniel

 

[AirborneTexasRanger]

Update #39

I might be finished with the rear end...for a while at least. Finished up the cross member tuck. It's not as easily done as I had hoped. Probably because I'm more of a cave man fabricator & not so much finesse. I managed to get everything back together & square-ish. Won't go into too much detail about the process as others have done a better job. Slight differences were that I welded the transition pieces to the cross member first because I new trying to get the MIG gun between the frame & body would be challenging. I followed Blaine's design with fish plates on the inside. The body mounts were trimmed a little & I also attached a picture of how much grime was under the tub.

Since everything was off I wanted to weld nuts inside the frame & cross member because I don't like fumbling with hardware in cramped spots. I also put some bracing on the cross member where the bumper would bolt on. Finally I reworked the bumper again to sit right up next to the cross member. This meant rotating the lower to to fit up against the tank skid. Also the corners were brought in about an 1½" & I removed the center vertical tube.

One thing I found interesting is that the frame tube has an odd shape. The top corners are relatively square but the bottom corners have a radius. Very strange.

Thanks for checking out my build.
Daniel

 

[NashvilleTJ]

Nice work. Nothing Cave-Man about it.

 

[AirborneTexasRanger]

Nice work. Nothing Cave-Man about it.

My method is always measure twice & cut once............then get a BFH to make it fit

 

[AirborneTexasRanger]

Update #40

So the sliders are on revision 3 or 4, I don't remember which. Basically I reworked to brackets to the torque boxes to remove any cross bracing and go with an incorporate piece of 1" Sch 40 pipe instead. I also used my new tube bender to make the ends curve upwards a tad that were welded on & blended smooth for extra slipperyness. They were then notched & tacked in place under the TJ but fully welded on my saw horses. While I was under there I decided I wasn't happy how the forward bolt only attached to the sheet metal with a nut-sert. I fabricated up a bracket of 3/16" plate with captured nuts which will also reinforce the lower bolt of the front fenders also previously attached with a nut-sert to the sheet metal. I ended up using weld through primer on the back side because once the bracket is welded together it won't be able to come out for paint. I though about putting a gusset in there but wasn't sure it was needed.

Once those were painted & installed I moved to the next project which was phase 1 of raising the body mounts up. I wanted to reuse the originals but after cutting them off with the plasma it was clear I would need to put a splice plate for them to reach the frame. Ended up using some corners cut from a scrap piece of 3/16" wall square tubing. Once the brackets were modified I bolted them back in place for final welding. For anyone wanting to do this, it's worth knowing that the forward most brackets will stick up above the frame quite a bit so reinforcement will be necessary. I'm debating on whether or not It needs a gusset on the back side. I'm really glad my leather welding hood showed up for this project. Doing 1 at a time meant I had no issues with body movement & hole alignment.

Phase 2 will be boxing those brackets in with more of the same drops I had for the LCA skids 8" Sch 40 cut outs. Overkill? Probably. But they're free & feeds my welding addiction. My plan is to drill an 1½” hole to be able to access the bolts & leave the ends open to be able to slide the lower rubber bushing out if need be in the future. I tried to make the hole with a hole saw but wasn't able to. I have a mag drill instead of a drill press because it takes up a lot less space, it's portable & can be put away when not in use. It uses a ¾” Weldon shank meaning I have to put in a standard drill chuck then the hole saw mandrel. Long story short I ordered an 1½” annular cutter.

Thanks for checking out my build.
Daniel