I'll type out a long winded reply most people won't finish reading later tonight over a beer or two
I'm still waiting......................
Magnum supercharger
- Thread starter connor grimes
- Start date
I'm still waiting......................
If I may add my dear Chris...... since you live in Arizona you could just go down to Nogales and have a LS swap for 5K (including labor and engine/tranny) or so, here in Mexico we loooove the ls swaps and have a lot of experience with the swaps, since we are close to the Baja 1000 and all the gulf (between Sonora and Baja California) have a lot of sand dunes (like in Rocky Point) the need for power is the most important stuff to add into a vehicle.. we have as well a looooot of drag races in the sand/mud/dirt so, the power is an important thing here in Mexico.... I'm not saying that you just go alone to any shop to do the swap, but for sure you can get along some jeepers fellas for them to support you and aiming you to a reputable shop for the swap to be done, here in my town I struggle with my mechanic because he is always full handed with a lot of Arizona license plates vehicles being LS Swapped haahaha, I always tell him that the locals should be priority (Just kidding), I live 65 miles from the border and can help you connecting with someone with a reputable shop, they have a lot of videos of their builds... might not be interested.... but for sure its an option... I'm planning to do a LS swap this next year if everything goes as intended... the turbos and supercharges are just too expensive for what I need to pay for having a LS swap.... I'm adding a link here below of a really short video of what we do 70 miles down the border....
I'd like to see a walkaround video or writeup on a jeep with a $5k swap if you could find one.
I had no idea that this was such a thing in Mexico! How cool!
I'm still waiting......................
Aight, well, Jezza already spoke to most of my points, but a condensed version excluding all the supporting mods needed for both (bigger injectors, fuel pump, tuning, etc.) is that most people like to trot out where power is made with which power adder and where we need power in our vehicles. To that point I respond none of that is where you think. If you are trying to get more power at wide open throttle at 1500rpm, you need gears, not a turbo OR supercharger. You shouldn't be making a bunch of power that low anyways. It's terrible on bearings. Where most of us actually could use more power is 2500rpm+ going down the highway, goosing it down the on ramp, or romping it in the sand/mud. Just as hp isn't really a substitute for gears, gears aren't a substitute for hp. A 4banger with 5.13s on 33s would suck in a mud pit way more than a turbo I6 with 4.10s on 33s. You can only rev a motor so much.
As far as reliability, I don't think there is anything inherently more sound about a supercharger setup vs turbo. It's all aftermarket for us and depends on the quality of design/parts/install of each. There really isn't anything delicate about turbo stuff. If anyone calls intercooler piping delicate, I'd reply you did it wrong. Vacuum hose stuff? I mean, I'm reaching here. The only thing I can possibly think of inherently worrisome is the weight of a turbo that wasn't properly braced/supported getting bounced around off road which leads me back to the quality of the design again. Splashing water on a hot turbo is a mythical made up issue by people who have never run a turbo. Pressure on a woodruff key by a supercharger destroying a crank is certainly a realistic possibility though.
One difference I will suggest though that could possibly be considered to favor a supercharger is the linear power delivery (not to be confused with low end power). Linear as in predictable. Turbos need to spool and do it differently at different RPMs and loads. Now, correct sizing for your application and modern turbo design has made this all but a non-issue, but some people might notice. But I "noticed" it on a 600+hp turbo on a <3.0L I6 and quickly learned how to adapt and even enjoyed it (on the street). I also daily drove a .66L turbo/intercooled 3 banger putting down an amazing 60 somethin (crank) hp through 5.73? gears on 31s. Between those and my n/a stroker with 4.10s and 33s, I've got to experience a wide gambet. I also drove my buddy's supercharged MR2 a lot doing autocross kinda stuff as well as daily driving fwiw.
Also, I would LOVE an Magnum/Hemi/LS TJ as long as everything worked right. I'm not comparing any of what I said to a V8 swap.
One other random point aimed at no one in particular; turbos don't (appreciably) hurt your low end power. People talk like turbos have no low end power (mostly false) but if you don't have an issue with power in your properly geared TJ crawling around the trail/rocks, adding a turbo isn't going to make it any worse.
One other random point aimed at no one in particular; turbos don't (appreciably) hurt your low end power. People talk like turbos have no low end power (mostly false) but if you don't have an issue with power in your properly geared TJ crawling around the trail/rocks, adding a turbo isn't going to make it any worse.
Twin turbos didn't hurt the low end power on my brother's 3.5L Ecoboost F-150. That thing is incredible with a tune in it. That engine would be a deathtrap in a TJ.
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I've found myself repeatedly looking up Taurus SHO prices and mods recently for no particular reason
I've found myself repeatedly looking up Taurus SHO prices and mods recently for no particular reason
If the Taurus is just too big, there is also the Fusion Sport with the twin turbo 2.7.
AWD plus serious power = YeeHaw...
'05Train
TJ Enthusiast
I've found myself repeatedly looking up Taurus SHO prices and mods recently for no particular reason
Don't do it....I spent the '90s in the SHO and SVT worlds......Lots of money, lots of grief. I bought my last SHO in 2006 (it was a '95), and though it made all the great noises, it was a car that time had passed by.
Met some great people in those circles though.
Nevermind the turbo, it's easy to grenade an engine, period, if you're tuning it and don't know what you're doing.
'05Train
TJ Enthusiast
Which is why tuning is the most critical part of engine building, whether it's a cam, a turbo, or a supercharger. The "set up" is no more difficult for any mod; it's all a matter of balancing fuel, air, and spark in an engine that was prepared to accept whatever the mod is.
Only if you're just putting parts together into a familiar configuration. If you're truly building a completely new engine configuration, tuning isn't the hard part. The Harley-Davidson VR 1000 engine was a modern (at the time - 1994) four-valve, overhead cam, liquid cooled V-twin engine with integral transmission. It was made in very limited numbers just for road racing at the highest national level. You would be surprised to see what was inside those race engines to keep the cases from grenading! Per the rules, the castings in the race bikes had to be production-based. As we made more torque, we realized the cases needed gusseting and thicker walls. Solving that problem without being able to modify the casting molds was expensive. A lot of cracked cases on the engine dyno as we figured out how to weld, grind, epoxy gussets that would survive a weekend!
Having worked on some serious race vehicles, I rarely modify the production engines in my personal vehicles (there was one exception - I built a personal SuperMoto bike that could run the national circuit, but that was cheap with one cylinder). It gets annoying, and expensive, to run an engine development program with my recreational vehicles. I want my stuff to run, and I know that I'm not racing, so I don't need massive power or torque.
'05Train
TJ Enthusiast
I didn't say, "hard", I said, "critical". You can build the toughest bottom end imaginable, then grenade it quickly with a crap tune.
I was lucky enough to live in Jacksonville, FL in the late '90s and had the opportunity to see the VR1000 race at Daytona. I think Pascal Picotte was piloting that year. I was all-in on Doug Chandler, as I was on a Ninja at the time. Jesus Christ the sound that Harley made as it bellowed down the track. Like nothing I've ever heard before or since. I started riding Harleys shortly thereafter.
Many here know I ran a Kenne Bell supercharger on my rig for over a decade. I’ve never driven Turbo’d TJ for comparison, but my setup delivered very smooth, reliable, predictable power. It had a very good tune, and ran like a clock. You did not know it was there until you hit the loud pedal. And since I built it on a rig that was already correctly geared, I can tell you in comparison that the power increase was very noticeable down low. It was a fantastic setup for wheelin’. About 300 ponies, but 400 torque. I loved that thing.
That said, I’ve heard many horror stories about guys running superchargers on the I6 (ask Chris, I believe). As with any engine, and particularly a boosted engine, the tune is critical - and not easy to get right. KB had that part mastered out of the box.
To the OP, a key element on a good supercharger setup is an intercooler. Does the magnum setup include an intercooler? That has a lot to do with being able to find a good tune, and getting good power.
I’ve wheeled with many hard core guys running superchrgers. I’ve never wheeled with anyone running a turbo - so again no direct experience for comparison.
My neighbor has a JK with the Pentastar running a centrifugal supercharger - and it sucks. It does make good power up top, but you can’t tell it is there down low. It is no fun to drive. Nothing at all like my old setup.
All that having been said, y’all know what I run now…
That said, I’ve heard many horror stories about guys running superchargers on the I6 (ask Chris, I believe). As with any engine, and particularly a boosted engine, the tune is critical - and not easy to get right. KB had that part mastered out of the box.
To the OP, a key element on a good supercharger setup is an intercooler. Does the magnum setup include an intercooler? That has a lot to do with being able to find a good tune, and getting good power.
I’ve wheeled with many hard core guys running superchrgers. I’ve never wheeled with anyone running a turbo - so again no direct experience for comparison.
My neighbor has a JK with the Pentastar running a centrifugal supercharger - and it sucks. It does make good power up top, but you can’t tell it is there down low. It is no fun to drive. Nothing at all like my old setup.
All that having been said, y’all know what I run now…
Yeah, the VR program was a great time in my life. I started with the official team in summer of '93. Our first race was Daytona '94. I worked with Duhamel, Kling, Carr, Wilson, and Chandler before I left for Penske at the end of the '97 season. In '98, while I was at Penske, Picotte came on as the rider, then Russell. I left Penske after the '98 season, and took a year off from racing. In '00, I was asked to help a privateer team figure out how to keep their VR 1000s running (remember my previous post about cases grenading - they didn't have the manpower or budget to figure that out). In '01, 9-11 happened, and motocycle road racing in the US really hasn't recovered from that huge setback. There used to be a half dozen official factory teams, now there are none.
Depending on the year you were there, I may have been in the paddock, but it would have been in Jordan Szoke's pit box, not Picotte's or Russell's.
The newer generation is a different animal. I used to own a '98 Cobra as well and enjoyed the community.
Never even heard they made an awd version of that. Interesting. Probably cheaper than a Taurus by a bit too. I wonder how much potential that drive train has.
That applies the same to a supercharger as it does to a turbo which was the discussion here I think. Tuning and proper supporting mods are crucial for both, and all of that will be custom. That's a big point in favor of an n/a v8 swap. Forced induction is certainly not something that can't be setup properly and run reliably for years with great power, but you have to get your setup right.
None of the readily available SC I6 kits are worth the price of admission. The MP kit has been around for forever and they still can't get it right.
Dumping money into an I6 in general is not a financially astute decision, but if you must... Turbo is the way.
Dumping money into an I6 in general is not a financially astute decision, but if you must... Turbo is the way.
My answer is always the same, not worth the money or headache, especially if you're trying to make this thing your daily driver. I've got an M90 blower on mine and the setup has been through countless iterations, most recently tuned by @Flyin' Ryan Performance ^ (I still need to get you another log but I got injured then it got cold out and it's been in the garage with the tcase pulled.)
Whatever you think the cost is, to do it right, multiply by like 2-3x. It nickles and dimes you. My automotive experience has been somewhat diverse and honestly I prefer a turbo, I even counterintuitively like the old school lag (not that it's an issue anymore), it's just fun. As @SkylinesSuck said above, if you're geared right you really shouldn't need the power to come on instantly anyway.
I've told my wheeling buddies if they insist on boosting their TJ, to just build a turbo for it. Or a centrifugal charger so they can at least run a proper fmic. I knew that going into it too, I just never had a roots blower on a vehicle before and wanted to experience that sweet whine. Self inflicted pain.
NA power is really nice. I haven't had a stroker before, but if somebody insists on more power I think that's the direction I'd nudge them. V8s are cool, I just think the I6 heart is part of what makes a TJ a TJ.
Whatever you think the cost is, to do it right, multiply by like 2-3x. It nickles and dimes you. My automotive experience has been somewhat diverse and honestly I prefer a turbo, I even counterintuitively like the old school lag (not that it's an issue anymore), it's just fun. As @SkylinesSuck said above, if you're geared right you really shouldn't need the power to come on instantly anyway.
I've told my wheeling buddies if they insist on boosting their TJ, to just build a turbo for it. Or a centrifugal charger so they can at least run a proper fmic. I knew that going into it too, I just never had a roots blower on a vehicle before and wanted to experience that sweet whine. Self inflicted pain.
NA power is really nice. I haven't had a stroker before, but if somebody insists on more power I think that's the direction I'd nudge them. V8s are cool, I just think the I6 heart is part of what makes a TJ a TJ.
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