Nano-Technology Ceramic Coating for Paint: Is This Stuff a Scam?

Chris

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Is this stuff a scam?

https://www.ftadetailingsalem.com/opticoat/

I keep hearing on the internet from all these people who have used products like "Opti-Coat" to ceramic coat their paint. Apparently it uses some sort of nano-technology to bond with the paint and protect it?

Sounds like 100% marketing scam bullshit to me. I mean "nano technology"? Are these guys just using big fancy words for the purpose of marketing, or is there actual merit to this stuff?

Just curious if any of the auto detail geeks out there might know.
 
Don't have the dealership do it. Find a private reputable company/or individual who does it, but make sure they are licensed and have insurance.
 
Or sealing up a nice extra profit at the car dealership...
That's exactly what came to mind for me. We have a dealer around here that applies a ceramic sealant (the best one known to man by their account) to every new car on their lot. They then add a little sticker that tacks on the cost of $199 to all buyers and teach their salesmen to be rave about it. They tell you that you won't ever have to wax your car, unless of course you actually want to. The cost to them is likely $7 per car including the 30 minutes of labor by their lowest skilled worker who may or may not have applied it properly after a quick car wash.

That said, I have no idea if these products really work in the real world if applied properly. I get the science, but I do wonder how long these sealants really hang around after application. And do they have any negative affect, especially if used too often? I've used nano wax products and I can't tell the difference in quality or longevity vs a regular good carnauba wax. That is a whole different product line I realize, but just calling something "nano" doesn't make it the greatest thing ever. If the nano particles have an affinity for each other (adhesion, charged particles), they could still fall off in clumps and fail like other products over time.
 
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Honestly, I've been waxing cars all my life and still believe in a can of Turtle Wax Paste with teflon in it. I was raised old school. When my father introduced me to waxing a cars, he handed me a can of Simonize paste wax in a metal, yes metal, can that you used a screw driver to pry it open with. I would spend all day in the garage washing and waxing the neighborhoods cars. I started at 12 doing that and had a good business going until the time I got out of High School. On the average I made $50 a day and I had cars scheduled everyday of the week, including Saturdays and Sundays. The police even brought their cruisers up for me to wash and wax. They would laugh when they would see a 12 year old driving a car up the street to bring it back to the owner. That was a long time ago. Anyways point being, I don't know if the ceramic stuff really works, but I know with a lot of hard work and constant up keep with the right products you can keep your car looking great. I don't think their is a substitute for hard work.
 
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That's exactly what came to mind for me. We have a dealer around here that applies a ceramic sealant (the best one known to man by their account) to every new car on their lot. They then add a little sticker that tacks on the cost of $199 to all buyers and teach their salesmen to be rave about it. They tell you that you won't ever have to wax your car, unless of course you actually want to. The cost to them is likely $7 per car including the 30 minutes of labor by their lowest skilled worker who may or may not have applied it properly after a quick car wash.

That said, I have no idea if these products really work in the real world if applied properly. I get the science, but I do wonder how long these sealants really hang around after application. And do they have any negative affect, especially if used too often? I've used nano wax products and I can't tell the difference in quality or longevity vs a regular good carnauba wax. That is a whole different product line I realize, but just calling something "nano" doesn't make it the greatest thing ever. If the nano particles have an affinity for each other (adhesion, charged particles), they could still fall off in clumps and fail like other products over time.
Your lack of ceramic coating research baffles me. Im just being blunt. Ceramic coating does not cost $7. Reason behind my statement, “30 mins of labor by their lowest skilled worker.”

@Chris do not go to a dealership. You get what you pay for and ceramic coating as well as high end detailing is a perfect example of that.

Check these guys out. What most people think Of “automotive detailing,” doesn't hold a candle to what detailing really is.

https://m.facebook.com/ClarityAutoDetailing/

This misinformation in this thread is wild.
 
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Your lack of ceramic coating research baffles me. Im just being blunt. Ceramic coating does not cost $7. Reason behind my statement, “30 mins of labor by their lowest skilled worker.”

@Chris do not go to a dealership. You get what you pay for and ceramic coating as well as high end detailing is a perfect example of that.

Check these guys out. What most people think Of “automotive detailing,” doesn't hold a candle to what detailing really is.

https://m.facebook.com/ClarityAutoDetailing/

This misinformation in this thread is wild.

I'm not trying to pick a fight and let's not do that. I never said that ceramic coating was cheap, and I don't know enough about it. I only know what I've used in the past, but since you replied then why don't you educate us all and tell us what makes ceramic coating so great and what it will do for our vehicles? I'm mean some of the stuff I have seen claims you never have to wax your car again, it will protect your paint from chips, etc.... I've seen all kind of stuff on the net and honestly, if it's true, I'd shell out a few $100 to get my Challenger done. I just want convinced to spend the money. Anybody out there agree?
 
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Your lack of ceramic coating research baffles me. Im just being blunt. Ceramic coating does not cost $7. Reason behind my statement, “30 mins of labor by their lowest skilled worker.”

@Chris do not go to a dealership. You get what you pay for and ceramic coating as well as high end detailing is a perfect example of that.

Check these guys out. What most people think Of “automotive detailing,” doesn't hold a candle to what detailing really is.

https://m.facebook.com/ClarityAutoDetailing/

This misinformation in this thread is wild.

Feel free to be blunt because I don't know squat about ceramic coatings. I've only done casual looking at their advertising claims and then looked no further. I think that is what Chris was asking about as well. I don't see anyone spreading misinformation in this thread, we were just providing a little skepticism via sarcasm, and asking some honest questions.

I was being sarcastic about a dealer charging $199 for something that likely costs them $7. Nowhere did I claim exactly what they were applying, nor did I claim quality ceramic coatings don't exist. You have to admit, the claims for some of the coatings sound pretty grandiose. I would like to learn more about the reality vs the hype. Instead of a Facebook page of a company that does professional detailing for a living (no matter how good they are), I'd much rather see some independent scientific research on some of the popular ceramic coatings (how they fair in general, against each other, and against other well known products). I'm all ears, educate us as much as you want, I'm here to learn.
 
Admittedly, it's the use of the term "nano-technology" that raises the bullshit marketing flag with me.

However, I know nothing about this, so maybe I'm entirely wrong. I definitely appreciate the input!
 
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Admittedly, it's the use of the term "nano-technology" that raises the bullshit marketing flag with me.

However, I know nothing about this, so maybe I'm entirely wrong. I definitely appreciate the input!

I did some quick general research on ceramic coatings (or nano ceramic coatings if you like!):
  • It is a liquid polymer that creates a semi-permanent bond to the paint\clear coat and provides a protective layer from UV, oxidation, chemical stains/etching etc.
  • The coatings can last a long time, but most agree they will lose their luster after 2-3 years on typical cars experiencing normal washing and usage. For show cars that never see the light of day, they will last much longer (often the cars you see them applied on). From what I understand, it is the gradual erosion of the polymer layer and it thins over time. For a more permanent solution, a "glass coating" could be used, but it is more expensive (Glass > Ceramic > Teflon).
  • Like painting, prep is key. If you have swirl marks before you apply, you will have sealed in swirl marks when you are done. Professional paint correction should be done first. Even on new cars, prep will be key for the best results.
  • May provide more luster to the paint, but that will really depend on prep, paint quality, and quality of application.
  • Will not eliminate the possibility of water spots, rock chips, swirl marks and scratches...but can provide some basic protection for minor scuffing and smaller scratches.
I tried to weigh the pros and cons fairly, let me know if someone disagrees. Again the research was "general" and not about a single particular ceramic coating product. It does seem worthwhile, if done properly, especially for an expensive new car or a classic car that has been restored and doesn't see much action. To be done properly however, I'm assuming it will cost quite a bit since the prep is so important.
 
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Not sure about on paint, but we bought a frying pan with some ceramic nano technology as a joke one day, but danged if nothing sticks to that pan. Just crack an egg in it with no grease or butter and it will slide right out of the pan. If they can put it on a car, I dought dirt would stick to it
 
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I'm not trying to pick a fight and let's not do that. I never said that ceramic coating was cheap, and I don't know enough about it. I only know what I've used in the past, but since you replied then why don't you educate us all and tell us what makes ceramic coating so great and what it will do for our vehicles? I'm mean some of the stuff I have seen claims you never have to wax your car again, it will protect your paint from chips, etc.... I've seen all kind of stuff on the net and honestly, if it's true, I'd shell out a few $100 to get my Challenger done. I just want convinced to spend the money. Anybody out there agree?
I wasnt trying to pick a fight. Having a true understaning of waxes and the tech in them is beyond me scientifically speaking. I do know for a fact through my research that a summer day spent in the parking lot can breakdown a coating of typical turtle wax from walmart.

Wax is just that, wax. It's used as a light jacket during a rain storm. It helps "prevent" clear coat contamination. It is essentially just one extra barrier in between the clear coat the outside contaminants. Sealant is a much better choice over something like turtle wax when it comes to paint/clear coat protection once a real detai (Read: paint correction) is done. While in Hawaii this stuff lasted about 6 monthes in the sun there. So regional depenedent and usuage/elements exposure dependent as well. In theory the dirt, grime, road tar, rail dust all gets int ht ewax and doesnt touch the clear coat. I would venture to say just touching a cleared car with no protection on it does in fact damage the paint. Hell, wiping dust off a car scratches the clear coat. While on a muicroscopic level, it eads up to light swirls in the clear that the sun catches at differenct angles.

Ceramic coating is one step further in added proection. It's a heavy rain coat during a rain storm. It does all the above mentioned with a more durable longer lasting proectoin period. A few faqs here.

A ton of detailing how-tos and deep diving explanations can be found here, here, here, and here. This guy has tons of info that is awesome on detailing basics.

I if it's true, I'd shell out a few $100 to get my Challenger done
Done correctly, its going to be a litle more than a few hundred.


Instead of a Facebook page of a company that does professional detailing for a living (no matter how good they are), I'd much rather see some independent scientific research on some of the popular ceramic coatings (how they fair in general, against each other, and against other well known products). I'm all ears, educate us as much as you want, I'm here to learn.
If you ran a business wouldnt you want to show off a little....They do your average consumer car to. No differnent than Posion Spyder Customs showing off their work and craftsmanship with this build:
s-l1600.jpg
 
OK, my "expertise" on this subject includes only much reading on the internet and real world usage of the products. My Challenger and my BMW are both ceramic coated as were a couple vehicles before that.

Real world - For us Wrangler owners, particularly those of us who are not looking to have show car Jeeps, and those that actually do some wheeling, mudding, etc., ceramics are a waste of money. Ceramics are not going to keep that brush from scratching the side of your jeep. They are not going to make the jeep stay clean after you take it through the mud or out in the desert on the rocks and over the dunes.

For those who just daily or occasionally drive their vehicles on the road, and who are fairly obsessive about the paint looking good and clean, then ceramics may be for you.

The primary advantages of ceramics. On a daily driven vehicle or a garaged vehicle, you will not need to wax or apply polishes for anywhere from 1-5 years depending on the ceramic coating used and the number of layers applied. During that time, dirt generally will not stick to the vehicle, and rain/water beads like crazy, making washing easier. In a nutshell, the vehicle looks and acts like a newly waxed/polished vehicle for 1-5 years.

Ceramics can be applied DIY but you need to know what you are doing. Process is wash, clay, wash, dry, paint correction (orbital or buffer with correct componding steps depending on the amount of paint correction needed)....de-iron/de-bug solution application, final check to be sure absolutely no spots, dust, etc...then application of ceramics. The process for one layer probably takes 10-16 hours of work. The process for 3-5 layers considerably more since you have to wait something like 12 hours between coats. In the states, general prices at a REAL detailer range from $800 for 1 year (one coat) to something like $1500 for multiple. You have to (well should be) certified to apply the coatings. You have to be trained in other words.

I like the ceramics because I hate waxing/polishing my car. I used to love love love detailing cars, but I have physical challenges now that make the after effects of doing it way too painful. With the ceramics, I would not say the vehicle looks any better than one freshly waxed/polished, but the difference is it looks that way after each wash for the 3-5 years between applications, rather than 6 months tops for typical washes and polishes. Additionally, the vehicle is easier to wash. I use my soap cannon, then very lightly and quickly use a microfiber mitt and the two bucket wash technique, the use my blower (specifically for car detailing not a leaf blower), and then pat a few areas of the vehicle dry with a microfiber waffle weave towel and wipe down the jambs. Not including the time to get all the stuff out of the garage, it takes about 90 minutes start to finish (for a person that moves very slowly like me). And between times I take my cars through the touchless car wash tunnels and they come out looking great.

My TJ is not coated, and the paint is a 5 on a scale of 10. I would love to get it re-sprayed, but I know myself and would become obsessive about keeping the paint looking near pristine, which to me somewhat takes away from the fun of owning a Wrangler... It rarely gets washed, and when I do the top is usually off, so I basically rinse it (hood and lower half of tub only), then use quick detailer on it, probably adding to the microscratches. But my Jeep has plenty of MACRO scratches... I wash it maybe once during the summer months more thoroughly with the top on.
 
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Thanks for sharing guys. I have learned a lot on this subject in a short span! Here still lies the most confusing part. Just like sealants and waxes....there are a such a wide range of these coating products to consider. While similar, they are not all equal. In order to help classify, I have taken some time to classify the general subtypes of these types of products being discussed (and a couple others). Like in my last post, I am trying to be as general and as fair as possible with the information without mentioning any specific products, detailers etc.
  1. Ceramic coatings are good, true and tested. As one detailing expert put it, this is "70's technology". The problem with these original formulas (some still around) is that they don't last nearly as long. These are still better than the teflon-based coatings.
  2. Newer professional nano-ceramic coatings (smaller particle size = better sealing + better bonding to the the paint) offer great protection and have a decent life span (the 2-3 years I mentioned previously).
  3. Consumer DIY nano-ceramic coatings. While decent and will last longer than a sealant or wax, these are not known to be as high of quality as professionally installed coatings. One detailer explained that the consumer grades are much easier to work with and are easier to remove in the short term during application in the case of an accident. They are purposely made as such for home use. That makes these product blends not quite as durable as the professional coatings that bond immediately when applied. But, at 1/10 the cost of a professional job (assuming you do a good DIY), are the professional products 10x better? But still, unless you have experience in paint correction and/or preparation that should take place beforehand, you’ll likely want to get the coating done by a professional.
  4. Glass coatings (SiC). While ceramics are also made of SiO2 like glass, these newer coatings, over the past decade or so, use Silicon Carbide (SiC). Most professional detailers now offer these. These coatings are more expensive than ceramics and the coating process also takes longer from what I have read. However, these coatings are more durable and supposedly can last several years when cared for properly. The newer coatings products are sometimes hybrid mixes of SiC and different ceramic nano particles to achieve specific properties (shine, durability, hardness etc.).
  5. Self-healing coatings. These newer coatings claim to be able to self-heal smaller scratches when heat is applied. Other products claim to self-heal on their own over time.
  6. Other coatings (many DIY found in auto parts stores) - adding this class of non-Ceramic coating products because these confuse ignorant consumers with cheaper alternatives that try make the same claims (but aren't in the same class or quality of product).
 
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Admittedly, it's the use of the term "nano-technology" that raises the bullshit marketing flag with me.

However, I know nothing about this, so maybe I'm entirely wrong. I definitely appreciate the input!
yup. "Nano-tech" and "quantum" are snake oil terms. not saying all products which use these terms are bad but it is poor marketing.
 
yup. "Nano-tech" and "quantum" are snake oil terms. not saying all products which use these terms are bad but it is poor marketing.

Okay, that's what I figured. Anytime I hear something with "nano" in it, I roll my eyes.
 
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Okay, that's what I figured. Anytime I hear something with "nano" in it, I roll my eyes.

Yup - it is just the marketing folks latching onto some "cool" sounding terms. Nanotechnology has a very specific scientific definition of technology existing in sizes smaller than 100 nanometers. DNA is about 2.5 nanometers and 2 silicon atoms are about 1 nanometer. The marketing guys get away with it because everything is made up of molecules/atoms so everything can be expressed in nanometers, technically. Our TJs use "nanotechnology" too, using this premise.
 
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