P0505 & P0500, no gauges

Well, I waded through the wiring diagrams this morning and it seems that all the gauges that aren't working ground through the PCM. Learned some interesting stuff so far. I am amazed at how much of the wiring is inter-tied one way or another. These things are NOT your Granddads CJ5.
 
Definitely not as simple as a CJ5, but probably much simpler than your JKU!

So it sounds like you may indeed have a bad PCM after all. With electronics it's just the name of the game. Electronics don't slowly go bad (like piston rings for instance), they are simply good one day, and bad the next.

Reminds me of the time our hybrid battery took a crap on us... It was perfect, and one day it just suddenly stopped working with no warning signs at all.
 
Sadly, I think you're right @Chris. The PCM has hacked a hairball and needs to be replaced. I wonder if you can reset those things? Like doing a flash and cold reboot on a computer?

Much simpler than the JKU, for sure. No readily available FSM's for those yet that I have found anyway. Kind of scary...
 
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You have two totally unrelated codes. So what is common to both? That is what points me to think ground.

You were right, Frank, it does seem to be the ground. But all of the affected systems except for the IAC ground through the PCM. Since the engine runs great except for the high idle, all of the connectors and pins are dry, clean and connecting well into the PCM, and the grounding is internal for those gauges on the PCM it looks like the PCM took a dump.
 
Is there an FSM for the JK though? I have to assume it exists.

I'm not sure if you can reset a PCM. If you do, I would guarantee you need a special tool. Though resetting it wouldn't do any good if the circuitry inside of it has failed.

I can't say a failed PCM is unheard of. I've read plenty of internet stories of others who had a failed PCM.
 
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There are FSM's for the JK's, but they are horribly expensive. IIRC they run a couple of hundred bucks in electronic form. Eventually someone will post them out on the internet like has happened for the TJ's, but not yet.

Yup, probably need a special tool that costs more than the PCM does. On top of that, I'm pretty sure that most of the control circuitry is ROM, so it couldn't be flashed anyway. One of the reasons that performance tuning the TJ isn't straight forward. Most everyone else uses EPROM chips that can be flashed and modified. Chevy does for sure. Time to search out a new box for the TJ.
 
Yes, the are ROM, which is why you don't see any sort of upgraded EPROMs for the TJ like you do for so many other vehicles.

You're right about the JK FSM... It's just a matter of time before it makes it to the Internet. I'm shocked it hasn't already.

Let us know if it does end up being your PCM. It sure sounds like that's what it is.
 
I may have more than one issue. Been researching this and found out A TON of information about these things. Including how to fix them yourself. Non-trivial to do, but possible. More later when I'm on my laptop...
 
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Anyway, here's what I found out looking into ECM's / PCM's for Jeep TJ's.

It appears that somewhere between 75 and 95% of what is wrong with a TJ's ECM, when it goes bad, is NOT the components on the circuit boards, or the circuit boards themselves. The programming is burned into the ROM, and is not something that can be modified. So, if the program can't be changed or rarely becomes corrupted, and the hardware is very reliable, what does that leave us with?

The connections and solder joints in the ECM. Yup, most of the issues we are likely to experience with our ECM's boils down to failed solder joints and dirty connections.

Surprisingly enough, a trip to the internet and Radio Shack can let you fix an ECM in most cases. This may be a good thing. MOPAR doesn't have new ECM's available, and will charge you a boat load of money for a rebuilt one. Guess what? MOPAR gets them rebuilt at the same places you and I can. A couple of things about repaired / rebuilt / re-manufactured ECM's. There is a difference between a $170 ECM and a $500 ECM. It takes time to clean and re-solder all of the connections, remove the potting compound and repot the boards, & etc. Time equals money. Also, make sure that the ECM is programmed with your serial number and mileage. The dealership can do this, but will charge something along the lines of $120.

If you have soldering skills, all you need is a 15 watt soldering iron, fine rosin core 40 - 60 solder, a solder sucker, contact cleaning chemical, something to clean potting compound from the boards and clip on heat sinks.

More later as I dig up photos and such.

Oh, I'm having mine rebuilt professionally. No soldering skills.
 
Anyway, here's what I found out looking into ECM's / PCM's for Jeep TJ's.

It appears that somewhere between 75 and 95% of what is wrong with a TJ's ECM, when it goes bad, is NOT the components on the circuit boards, or the circuit boards themselves. The programming is burned into the ROM, and is not something that can be modified. So, if the program can't be changed or rarely becomes corrupted, and the hardware is very reliable, what does that leave us with?

The connections and solder joints in the ECM. Yup, most of the issues we are likely to experience with our ECM's boils down to failed solder joints and dirty connections.

Surprisingly enough, a trip to the internet and Radio Shack can let you fix an ECM in most cases. This may be a good thing. MOPAR doesn't have new ECM's available, and will charge you a boat load of money for a rebuilt one. Guess what? MOPAR gets them rebuilt at the same places you and I can. A couple of things about repaired / rebuilt / re-manufactured ECM's. There is a difference between a $170 ECM and a $500 ECM. It takes time to clean and re-solder all of the connections, remove the potting compound and repot the boards, & etc. Time equals money. Also, make sure that the ECM is programmed with your serial number and mileage. The dealership can do this, but will charge something along the lines of $120.

If you have soldering skills, all you need is a 15 watt soldering iron, fine rosin core 40 - 60 solder, a solder sucker, contact cleaning chemical, something to clean potting compound from the boards and clip on heat sinks.

More later as I dig up photos and such.

Oh, I'm having mine rebuilt professionally. No soldering skills.

Yeah, this isn't surprising at all. In fact, I could have told you this a while ago, I just failed to mention this.

The reason I know all of this is because I went through a similar issue with my BMW M5. Turns out that the circuit boards themselves aren't what's going bad, it's the soldered joints on the circuit board themselves. Same thing happened with my MacBook Pro laptop.

This is what happens with years of use and constant heat exposure (it's hot under the hood!), so it comes as no surprise. You can attempt to fix them yourself, but I checked out the ECU on my M5, and there's no way I would attempt it myself. You need a micro-tipped soldering iron, a super, super steady hand, and a large magnifying glass. Even then, it's extremely tedious work, which is why it was done by a machine from the factory!

Anyways, there's tons of places online that do these repairs for a low cost. I ended up having one of these places repair my M5 ECU. I got it back a week later and it worked great!
 
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I'm having mine done here:
http://jeeppcmdirect.com/index.php

Seem to be the best place I've found.

I had mine done by a place that did BMWs and European cars specifically. I have to imagine a Jeep PCM is much more simplistic than that found on something like a BMW M5. I could be wrong, but I don't think so.

Either way, hopefully this solves the issue. I assume they'll call you when they get it and tell you if it is indeed the PCM that's the issue?

That's what they did for me. They called me when they got it and confirmed that there were several areas where the solder had come undone.
 
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I'm ordering a rebuilt one, and sending mine back as a core. We'll see what we shall see.

Talked with the parts manager at the local Jeep dealership. It seems that the part number on my ECM doesn't match what is supposed to be in there. Mines marked P56041458AD and the one that's supposed to be in there is P56041457AH. The last letter isn't a big deal, that's just a firmware rev level, but the difference between 458 and the 457 means something with emissions and economy.

I found the paperwork, and the Dealership wants $879 for an ECM.
 
I'm ordering a rebuilt one, and sending mine back as a core. We'll see what we shall see.

Talked with the parts manager at the local Jeep dealership. It seems that the part number on my ECM doesn't match what is supposed to be in there. Mines marked P56041458AD and the one that's supposed to be in there is P56041457AH. The last letter isn't a big deal, that's just a firmware rev level, but the difference between 458 and the 457 means something with emissions and economy.

I found the paperwork, and the Dealership wants $879 for an ECM.

$879? Not surprising.

How much is the rebuilt PCM you're getting from these guys?
 
It was a bad ground in the ECM / PCM coupled with a battery nearing end of life. Rebuilt ECM fixed the issue.
 
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Sweet! Glad that fixed it. Horrible that it had to happen around this time of year though. I know the feeling...
 
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Thanks for the FSM writeup on troubleshooting the IAC, @Chris, that was a huge help. And thanks to everyone who pitched in with suggestions! (Frank)
 
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