Please Learn From My Lack of Proper Insurance Coverage (Please Read)

I heard there are many possibilities, until you say off road.

There is a place in Tx that will insure off road, but they want everything you insure to be added to the policy.

I don't remember the company, I deleted their info after they took it upon themselves to research my current policy and tell me give me all or nothing.

LiteBrite recommended them in one of their vids
 
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I would think damage that occurred offroad would be pretty easy for an adjuster to distinguish from on-road. I guess rollovers might be harder, but the existence or lack of a police report would be a pretty telltale indicator.
 
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eastbloc said:
Well, after Fouled has shared his experience I finally got in touch with USAA and came to a conclusion that in today's market, with my coverage, in worst case I will come out in negative.
USAA gives $5000 wiggle room + 20% of vehicle value. Typically that would be enough, but this days biggest question is what is the difference between how much they appraise Jeep for and what is the actual going rate of one in a good shape.
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Common issue that I keep running into reading more and more about coverage on a heavily modified Jeep.
 
LJ06 said:
If you just purchased it 24 hours prior, that to me would be an excellent market comp. That was the going rate for the exact vehicle.

Do you have a bill of sale showing the purchase price, dated 24 hours prior? Do you have to disclose or provide proof of that when you registered the vehicle?
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I briefly asked about the bill of sale proving it's worth and the adjuster pretty much batted it away, claiming it wouldn't be enough. Note that this was before I went to email only communications with the adjuster.

I have a notarized bill of sale with all the sales details like VIN, mileage, driver license info, addresses, and price. :cool:
 
DaveF said:
I just called Hagerty and they said they don't cover daily drivers OR vehicles that are primarily used off road. Only way to cover a Jeep would be if it was a secondary vehicle that was primarily used on road... my search continues.

He stated that if a claim was submitted and the evaluator determined the vehicle was heavily used off road it could invalidate the claim.
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What freaking bummer.

If the claim is from an accident that happens on a public road/highway..it shouldn't be an issue, but I am not an insurance company.
 
Fouledplugs said:
What freaking bummer.

If the claim is from an accident that happens on a public road/highway..it shouldn't be an issue, but I am not an insurance company.
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what people forget is insurance is literally gambling, and just like at the casino, the house always wins. I guess their army of statisticians has decided that if the vehicle gets used offroad, it's harder for them to guarantee that win.
 
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*Update* *Update*
Catching everyone up:

I organized all the parts, invoices, receipts, and screen grabs of parts from their respective websites into a .zip file along with a easy to read Excel spreadsheet with the overall cost and individual cost.

I contacted the Progressive adjuster and claim rep and notified them via email stating email would be the only form of commination from now on and got crickets for a while. Before doing this I was getting pretty consistent phone calls from them with updates and questions.

The reason I went to email only is obvious and felt it was the smartest move after the adjuster called and stated she was wanting total the Jeep with a $8k payoff or a salvage title and $6k in my pocket for repairs. Nether option is a route I'm willing to accept from Progressive.

The adjuster is ignorant when it comes to the Jeep, which is understandable. But don't call me and tell me you figured all the aftermarket stuff yourself...to offer me $8k.

So I emailed Progressive asking them to send me the complete valuation and total analysis report, which they did. I will upload them here later tonight.

I also emailed the adjuster and asked her to fulfill her promise on getting the bodyshop owner to write the estimate since he knows what he's doing and throw hers out. I sent her the parts list and spreadsheet and asked her to get the Jeep re-evaluated through the third-party company who values their vehicle claims and ask them to consider the parts added and modifications made.

She emailed yesterday me after I asked for an update via email and stated the third party company didn't add any value in the re-eval to the overall value of the Jeep...amazing not even a penny. She sated that she's working on other options this week.

Talked to the bodyshop today and his estimate is under $5k which he sent to Progressive on 18 Feb 2022. The adjuster's estimate was under $6k but had a frame swap and labor in it, which isn't needed.
 
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freedom_in_4low said:
what people forget is insurance is literally gambling, and just like at the casino, the house always wins. I guess their army of statisticians has decided that if the vehicle gets used offroad, it's harder for them to guarantee that win.
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Not trying to argue, but if I used a Jeep as it marketed and designed for...then have an accident on the road back home, where does the issue come from?
 
freedom_in_4low said:
what people forget is insurance is literally gambling, and just like at the casino, the house always wins. I guess their army of statisticians has decided that if the vehicle gets used offroad, it's harder for them to guarantee that win.
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This is not true. Insurance is not a gamble. Policyholders are transferring their risk to the insurance company. The insurance company can take that risk on because they pool the risk of many policyholders to take advantage of the law of large numbers. This essentially means they can estimate the amount of losses given the amount of exposure. I've worked in this industry for nearly 20 years as one of these statisticians (but really an actuary). In life insurance we can very accurately predict the number of deaths each year. One reason for exclusions (jeep not covered offroad) is to keep the premium lower. If your company started covering all offroad accidents how much higher would you think your premium would go for Jeep owners?

A lot of people feel like they lost/didn't get anything for their premiums while having no claims but you are getting something which is the coverage of insurance and the house does not always win. Insurance companies can and do go insolvent.
 
rhanna said:
This is not true. Insurance is not a gamble. Policyholders are transferring their risk to the insurance company. The insurance company can take that risk on because they pool the risk of many policyholders to take advantage of the law of large numbers. This essentially means they can estimate the amount of losses given the amount of exposure. I've worked in this industry for nearly 20 years as one of these statisticians (but really an actuary). In life insurance we can very accurately predict the number of deaths each year. One reason for exclusions (jeep not covered offroad) is to keep the premium lower. If your company started covering all offroad accidents how much higher would you think your premium would go for Jeep owners?

A lot of people feel like they lost/didn't get anything for their premiums while having no claims but you are getting something which is the coverage of insurance and the house does not always win. Insurance companies can and do go insolvent.
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Your assertion that insurance companies go insolvent doesn't invalidate that the house always wins. An insurance company is a business, and if they don't win in the long run, they don't make money and they go insolvent...just like the casino.

My premiums are a bet that I'll need to make a claim. It's not an insult to the insurance industry and it doesn't mean we're all gambling addicts, it just means that I think that there's a likelihood that at some point in my life I will face an unpredictable expense that would be damaging to my financial well being and I'm willing to bet another $5k every year, waiting for it to happen. I've never made an auto claim but I've had a couple of roofs get taken out by hail to the tune of about $15k/pop. Even though I won the bet, the house is still winning in the long run. My brother had a $100k claim for a house fire, so the house lost in that individual case, but overall they have a lot more customers like me than they have like him. They're gambling too, they just have an army of actuaries to help them figure out exactly what premiums to charge so they always win, making it a little less gamble-y...Just like the casino knows how big the bets have to be to have profits left after the payouts.
 
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freedom_in_4low said:
Your assertion that insurance companies go insolvent doesn't invalidate that the house always wins. An insurance company is a business, and if they don't win in the long run, they don't make money and they go insolvent...just like the casino.

My premiums are a bet that I'll need to make a claim. It's not an insult to the insurance industry and it doesn't mean we're all gambling addicts, it just means that I think that there's a likelihood that at some point in my life I will face an unpredictable expense that would be damaging to my financial well being and I'm willing to bet another $5k every year, waiting for it to happen. I've never made an auto claim but I've had a couple of roofs get taken out by hail to the tune of about $15k/pop. Even though I won the bet, the house is still winning in the long run. My brother had a $100k claim for a house fire, so the house lost in that individual case, but overall they have a lot more customers like me than they have like him. They're gambling too, they just have an army of actuaries to help them figure out exactly what premiums to charge so they always win, making it a little less gamble-y...Just like the casino knows how big the bets have to be to have profits left after the payouts.
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The biggest difference in the example you used, the insurance company is paying the claim to recoup the financial loss you incurred. For the most part, the insurance company is trying to make the insured "whole". That doesn't always happen because of moral hazard. The best example of that would be disability insurance. Most policies will only pay 60-70% of your salary. If they paid 100% miraculously no one would ever recover.

When you pay your premium you are lowering your risk but with a casino you are increasing your risk
 
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hate to hear about the mess you’re in @Fouledplugs . i was involved in a vehicle accident 1/20/20 with the other party at fault. other party’s insurance is none other than progressive (flo). i had to file on my insurance(farmers) to get a dime for my totaled car with my insurance suing progressive to recoup their out of pocket for my car. my attorney has been unsuccessful to this point in getting a reasonable settlement on personal injury and lost wages. mind you this accident occurred on 1/20/20 and we’re scheduled for court on 3/14/21. progressive is willing to spend more fighting this than simply paying my medical bills and lost wages. ole flo (progressive) will screw you long and hard. about ready to tell judge to have them pay my medical bills plus one dollar so my ineffective attorney can take his 40% (40 cents) and beat his feet. would never thought this would drag on this long. smdh!
 
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Fouledplugs said:
Not trying to argue, but if I used a Jeep as it marketed and designed for...then have an accident on the road back home, where does the issue come from?
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Because there is a higher likelihood that an owner of a built rig will try to claim Offroad damage.
 
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txbemis69 said:
hate to hear about the mess you’re in @Fouledplugs . i was involved in a vehicle accident 1/20/20 with the other party at fault. other party’s insurance is none other than progressive (flo). i had to file on my insurance(farmers) to get a dime for my totaled car with my insurance suing progressive to recoup their out of pocket for my car. my attorney has been unsuccessful to this point in getting a reasonable settlement on personal injury and lost wages. mind you this accident occurred on 1/20/20 and we’re scheduled for court on 3/14/21. progressive is willing to spend more fighting this than simply paying my medical bills and lost wages. ole flo (progressive) will screw you long and hard. about ready to tell judge to have them pay my medical bills plus one dollar so my ineffective attorney can take his 40% (40 cents) and beat his feet. would never thought this would drag on this long. smdh!
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Seems to the, “norm,” when it comes to dealing with insurance and them trying to nickle and dime folks who are owed money.
 
So I followed the video I linked earlier in this thread and called the insurance broker.

Got a call back. Here’s the rundown

13k agreed customized parts coverage. I provided a hard number of total cost in modifications. Combine this with the value of the jeep for current market rate. What does that mean?

Let’s say my jeep is valued at 12k. If it’s stolen or in an accident I get 12k + 13k for my mods. 25k tota.


Full coverage in the event of a rollover on any trail. Not just fireroads or acknowledge state trails.
The exception here is that I’ll have to tow my rolled jeep to the nearest highway for towing. They’re not gonna fetch it out of the woods. I’m okay with this.

What else am I getting:
-extended transportation 1,200$ max in the event I need a rental
-towing 800miles
-full coverage on the jeep 50/100
-Liability on my VW Jetta
-renters insurance for 30k. They cover me up to 30k in losses for my apartment in case of theft or something.

$290.00 total. Male 35 single

Current coverage with Esurance and Farmers is:

Full coverage on jeep 50/100
No coverage for aftermarket parts
No rollover agreement
Liability on jett.

Total is 158.00

Farmers renters insurance. Total is 50.00$

Total currently is $208.00


So…is 80$ worth it for 13k in modification coverage and a rollover? Yes.


I’ll be calling them again Monday to make sure everything is in writing. They are aware of the jeep community and what we do.

Who’s the insurance company? Go watch the video and do some homework.

Hope everyone luck.
 
*Update*

Progressive received the estimate written by the body shop and has to transcribe it into their own estimate...Copy/paste. However, now the adjuster tells me that she cant write an estimate with 20 hours of frame repair into the estimate for Progressive's system.

I pushed back and asked why not and if there was nay legal justification or guidance on this issue and all I got was "we are still looking at and working on options."

Not sure what would play out if I just paid out of pocket for the repairs that the body shop quoted and then surprised Progressive with the news that it's been fixed...here's the bill.
Anyone?

Spitballing, but I wonder what would of happened if I paid out of pocket for the repairs then opened a claim with Progressive to get my money back...
 
Jack_Stefan said:
So I followed the video I linked earlier in this thread and called the insurance broker.

Got a call back. Here’s the rundown

13k agreed customized parts coverage. I provided a hard number of total cost in modifications. Combine this with the value of the jeep for current market rate. What does that mean?

Let’s say my jeep is valued at 12k. If it’s stolen or in an accident I get 12k + 13k for my mods. 25k tota.


Full coverage in the event of a rollover on any trail. Not just fireroads or acknowledge state trails.
The exception here is that I’ll have to tow my rolled jeep to the nearest highway for towing. They’re not gonna fetch it out of the woods. I’m okay with this.

What else am I getting:
-extended transportation 1,200$ max in the event I need a rental
-towing 800miles
-full coverage on the jeep 50/100
-Liability on my VW Jetta
-renters insurance for 30k. They cover me up to 30k in losses for my apartment in case of theft or something.

$290.00 total. Male 35 single

Current coverage with Esurance and Farmers is:

Full coverage on jeep 50/100
No coverage for aftermarket parts
No rollover agreement
Liability on jett.

Total is 158.00

Farmers renters insurance. Total is 50.00$

Total currently is $208.00


So…is 80$ worth it for 13k in modification coverage and a rollover? Yes.


I’ll be calling them again Monday to make sure everything is in writing. They are aware of the jeep community and what we do.

Who’s the insurance company? Go watch the video and do some homework.

Hope everyone luck.
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I called them, and they told me there is no such thing as guaranteed price insurance for a non-classic car in Washington, and if i wanted to cover the Jeep that way it could "Never" go off road or daily drive.

He is going to quote me for coverage that would cover for off road damage like you said above (value + parts), but to do so I need to move all my vehicles, or at least one other vehicle to their insurance as well since they don't offer the off road piece as stand alone insurance, more like a rider on top of other more standard insurance, and the Jeep could not be the 'primary' vehicle.

He's working up a quote and we'll see how that Compares to what we have with State Farm.
 
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