psrivats' 2005 TJ Rubicon mild build

[bobthetj03]

Very nice sir. Just help install some 3" Currie springs in a buddy's Rubi yesterday. He's on 32's as well, and I must admit the stance looks really good. I'll be very interested to hear your thoughts on the demon vibration and how Dave was able to tame it more.

 

[psrivats]

Very nice sir. Just help install some 3" Currie springs in a buddy's Rubi yesterday. He's on 32's as well, and I must admit the stance looks really good. I'll be very interested to hear your thoughts on the demon vibration and how Dave was able to tame it more.

Thank you. Will post more after dedicated driving time.

In your friend's Rubi, with the Savvy 3" springs, did you also see less lift in the front than the rear?

 

[mrblaine]

Very special thanks to @mrblaine - I have learned the most from you, talking to you a little and mostly from reading your very informative posts. The more I learn, the more I realize I still have a very long way to go. I always will remember that knowledge is not understanding. I really respect you. You may see a lot of stuff in what I am posting that you may think this is really stupid - any faults/mistakes that you see are all mine since I gave Dave a set of constraints to build within that you may never accept to do out of your philosophy and understanding of things.

You are welcome for whatever little bit you took and used. As for the rest, I differ from other folks who help folks solve problems in that I don't care how you want to do something, if I think it is a mistake, I won't do it. That way no one who ever talks about anything I do can say that I am not responsible for how it turned out because I always will be.

 

[psrivats]

You are welcome for whatever little bit you took and used. As for the rest, I differ from other folks who help folks solve problems in that I don't care how you want to do something, if I think it is a mistake, I won't do it. That way no one who ever talks about anything I do can say that I am not responsible for how it turned out because I always will be.

I well know your stand on this, Blaine. Very very few people I know will take a stance like you. You have a philosophy and experience gained over a lot of time and I absolutely respect what you said above.

This is still a learning experience for me in terms of understanding my needs vs wants and making (what I think are learned) choices - and really understanding the consequences from said choices rather than just hearing what might happen. If I have made mistakes, I'll be the first to admit them. That is why I was very specific to say out here that Dave is not to be blamed for my choices.

FWIW to anyone who reads this, I did consider the Savvy midarm setup. Builds like obiwanwheeler's and midnight LJR's are outstanding. I did have sightly different needs and the Savvy setup's own set of requirements clashed against some of mine. I'll write about that in separate post.

One day I hope I can drive a well setup Savvy midarm Jeep and really understand whatever differences I perceive.

 

[mrblaine]

I well know your stand on this, Blaine. Very very few people I know will take a stance like you. You have a philosophy and experience gained over a lot of time and I absolutely respect what you said above.

This is still a learning experience for me in terms of understanding my needs vs wants and making (what I think are learned) choices - and really understanding the consequences from said choices rather than just hearing what might happen. If I have made mistakes, I'll be the first to admit them. That is why I was very specific to say out here that Dave is not to be blamed for my choices.

FWIW to anyone who reads this, I did consider the Savvy midarm setup. Builds like obiwanwheeler's and midnight LJR's are outstanding. I did have sightly different needs and the Savvy setup's own set of requirements clashed against some of mine. I'll write about that in separate post.

One day I hope I can drive a well setup Savvy midarm Jeep and really understand whatever differences I perceive.

I didn't imply or mean you should have gone with the mid arm. Not at all. And lest we all forget, we have to wheel where we live and build accordingly. Your build won't work down here at all if you plan to leave the pavement and all that means is your rig won't work down here, nothing else.

 

[BuildBreakRepeat]

Super excited to check it out later today!

 

[TDI Sahara]

I once transplanted a custom transmission and rear differential into a vehicle. For a short time i ran an unbalanced driveshaft and had a slight harmonic vibration. When I had enough money i got a new shaft made and still had a vibration. I went through the transmission, transmission mount, rear differential, pinion angles. Turns out the driveshaft was made out of pipe not d.o.m tube. The pipe was 0.030" out of round and caused the problem. Talk about pissed off.

 

[bobthetj03]

Thank you. Will post more after dedicated driving time.

In your friend's Rubi, with the Savvy 3" springs, did you also see less lift in the front than the rear?

Yes, he netted about 3/4" of rake.

 

[psrivats]

I didn't imply or mean you should have gone with the mid arm. Not at all. And lest we all forget, we have to wheel where we live and build accordingly. Your build won't work down here at all if you plan to leave the pavement and all that means is your rig won't work down here, nothing else.

I never took what you said in that way, Blaine. I know you never meant it either.

I have no dreams or desire to take my Jeep where you take your rigs. While I admire seeing well built rigs in that type of terrain crush obstacles, I have no desire to do that level of trails personally. My Jeep will take me where I want to go safely, reliably and comfortably. Some of it is indeed off-pavement but nothing extreme in any way. That was always the goal. And @David Kishpaugh delivered what I wanted.

 

[psrivats]

Yes, he netted about 3/4" of rake.

That seemed to be general consensus. Not a bad thing if you are running stock towers in the front and stock-ish travel shocks. We had to get the spacer in to get the travel that was in the plans. It actually worked out really well.

 

[psrivats]

Super excited to check it out later today!

Looking forward to meeting you and @zebra12.

 

[mattcogdell]

@psrivats I think there’s a little more to understand about @mrblaine post. I live on the opposite side of the country as Blaine. My Jeep works great in my terrain and would work great in his as well.

After my out board I took some measurements to make notes on. Around town/hwy driving I’m using 3.5-4” of up travel (on good roads). Fire roads I’m using between 6-6.5” of up travel. Trails, well I’m obviously using all of the up travel.

I set the Jeep up for 6.5” up and at ride height after removing the spare I’m at 6.75” up.

There’s been claims that the mid arm sways and handles poorly. That maybe true with no sway bars or piss poor shocks. My body roll is now less than with the short arm and standard shocks. The Jeep is very tight and on winding roads you can drive aggressively.

 

[psrivats]

My body roll is now less than with the short arm and standard shocks. The Jeep is very tight and on winding roads you can drive aggressively.

I can say very much the same about mine.

I have never doubted that the Savvy midarm drives nicely, esp if Blaine sets it up.


There are other factors in mine (belly height, body lift, tire size ..) that are not the norm or the "standard" compared to people who do similar extensive modifications. Some of it won't make sense to everyone, that is ok. Did I need this level of work done? Perhaps not. But I built to a plan .. I'll write about it later on.

 

[BuildBreakRepeat]

The Jeep handles amazing on the road. Swaylock plus RR foxes soak up body roll and bumps like nothing. @David Kishpaugh Great job.

 

[psrivats]

The Jeep handles amazing on the road. Swaylock plus RR foxes soak up body roll and bumps like nothing.

It was great having @zebra12 and you over today. Good times. I'll come down to Corvallis next time for sure.

 

[zebra12]

Sri's TJ rode and handled well, nice work @David Kishpaugh

 

[David Kishpaugh]

these handle better than the average short arm that have stock sway bars, with the sway bars removed.
many changes to the rear suspension geometry over the last 10 years is what has made them stable. The geometry correction brackets are based off of an idea sparked by Nth degree short arm suspension design that caught my attention around 2005, which I started moving around on the axle until I found the most stable seat of the pants feel. there is zero suspension bind in a 14" travel range off of a 2" bump stop extension. beyond that point, the track bar starts to fight with the control arm. we don't see alot of 4 links with more than 12" travel on rubicon TJ's due to the bind point of the double cardan.

I also build a rear 3 link/panhard that tucks the upper control arm up in the tunnel next to the driveshaft, using the same basic, geometry with a lot of adjustability options. it has a good bit more body roll on the hwy without sway bars. you can't really tell any difference with the sway bars on them.

There really are no compromises on this rig running 32/33" tire being on 3" springs and the 3" deep UCF belly pan. without the deep pan, the suspension would not be able to droop 12" to the end of the spring free length without binding the driveshaft. A body lift simply isn't needed, the 2" rear bump stop extension is all it needs to keep the link mounts and track bar from driving a hole in the body above the brackets. we have stock exhaust having only the transfer case mount point lowered because the 3rd cat was touching the floor pan from the gain over the stock skid. the front upper link is bent to get around the savvy engine skid brace attached to the engine mount, full compression is on a 1.5" bump stop extension that matches the 17" collapsed shock length in the towers. we effectively have the same down travel as a 27.5" extended shock length in stock mounts with Half of the 3" bump stop amount required by the 16.4" collapsed shock length, not to mention any other aftermarket front track bar available. simply bolting on a pair of high line fenders or raising the stock fenders along with a trim in the rear will fit 37" tires under there.

 

[Blackjack]

these handle better than the average short arm that have stock sway bars, with the sway bars removed.
many changes to the rear suspension geometry over the last 10 years is what has made them stable. The geometry correction brackets are based off of an idea sparked by Nth degree short arm suspension design that caught my attention around 2005, which I started moving around on the axle until I found the most stable seat of the pants feel. there is zero suspension bind in a 14" travel range off of a 2" bump stop extension. beyond that point, the track bar starts to fight with the control arm. we don't see alot of 4 links with more than 12" travel on rubicon TJ's due to the bind point of the double cardan.

I also build a rear 3 link/panhard that tucks the upper control arm up in the tunnel next to the driveshaft, using the same basic, geometry with a lot of adjustability options. it has a good bit more body roll on the hwy without sway bars. you can't really tell any difference with the sway bars on them.

There really are no compromises on this rig running 32/33" tire being on 3" springs and the 3" deep UCF belly pan. without the deep pan, the suspension would not be able to droop 12" to the end of the spring free length without binding the driveshaft. A body lift simply isn't needed, the 2" rear bump stop extension is all it needs to keep the link mounts and track bar from driving a hole in the body above the brackets. we have stock exhaust having only the transfer case mount point lowered because the 3rd cat was touching the floor pan from the gain over the stock skid. the front upper link is bent to get around the savvy engine skid brace attached to the engine mount, full compression is on a 1.5" bump stop extension that matches the 17" collapsed shock length in the towers. we effectively have the same down travel as a 27.5" extended shock length in stock mounts with Half of the 3" bump stop amount required by the 16.4" collapsed shock length, not to mention any other aftermarket front track bar available. simply bolting on a pair of high line fenders or raising the stock fenders along with a trim in the rear will fit 37" tires under there.

@David Kishpaugh couple questions on this build. I see you do not redrill the axle side lower on the rear did you not raise the uppers as much on this one? And I see you did not use Dual Durometer bushings, have you stopped using them?

 

[psrivats]

@David Kishpaugh Thank you for taking the time to post this information. I'm really enjoying driving the rig, puts a smile on my face everytime I get in. It drives and handles beautifully and soaks up bumps like they aren't even then there.

Going to the mountains again for Sunday, a little rougher 2 track road and I'm really looking forward to it instead of dreading it. I can't wait to go on more adventures with this Jeep. Thank you for building it the way I wanted.

 

[David Kishpaugh]

@David Kishpaugh couple questions on this build. I see you do not redrill the axle side lower on the rear did you not raise the uppers as much on this one? And I see you did not use Dual Durometer bushings, have you stopped using them?

lower axle mounts were not re drilled because it doesn't let me have the anti squat it needs to keep the front end on the ground, this was a hard one to realize since I've tried to keep the lower arms as flat as possible on alot of rigs over the years. one of the rigs that really bugged me was a midarm I did last year with 22.5" control arms, 4.5" mc springs and 14" travel bilstiens. after messing with it I figured out why.
re drilling the lowers is awesome with stock length short arms when using the upper geometry correction brackets and basically follows the same plane as the mid arm geometry using the stock lower axle end bolt hole.

The uppers are raised the same as always, what i did was drilled the track bar mount slightly lower to keep it off the body because it doesn't have a body lift.

I will likely never use another dual durometer bushing, ever. literally every single synergy control arm i've sold and every mid arm I have built in the last 5 years using dual durometer bushings, have been replaced within 18 months. one set was only driven 30 miles before it was sloppy and had symtoms of a loose bolt. synergy has decided I have to pay 50% for replacements that have little to no mileage on them and I have to send them in for inspection. the labor involved in changing them is not free. I am back to using Factory JK control arm bushings and as much as I hate the squaking, you'll likely see some MC bushings in the future.

Psrivats' control arms have factory JLU bushings and currie joints.