Recommended fluids for TJ

What's the matter Jerry, did someone challenge your know-it-all status?


Like I mentioned earlier. I was just suggesting to the op and all other who read this thread.
When it comes to oil, oil type, oil viscosity, time intervals, mileage, EVERYONE has opinions.

Oil analysis can be used in some cases, to prolong change intervals, but most Jeep owners change it based on mileage or time, either way it’s just a safe measure to change it at ones own determined intervals. Same with zddp, it’s a safe measure to use especially with flat tappet engines.

Again I was suggesting he look into it. That’s all! I know little about engines or oil.
 
Back on topic... FirstJeep, please let us know the details on your Jeep so we can give some valid and appropriate recommendations.
I didn’t mean to start a revolt here. Me. Bransford has helped a lot of people on this site. My Jeep is automatic and I’m from Arkansas it has 150000 miles on it. If you need any more info let me know.
 
I bought my 2000 TJ new and always used Pennzoil 10w-30. At 142k miles a broken piston skirt (not an oil problem) caused me to have my motor rebuilt. I had it bored out with new pistons, a mild comp cam and new lifters. My builder said he put break-in oil with a zinc additive included. He said after break-in period of 1500 miles to go back to whatever oil I used before. I asked him about the zinc additive and he said you don’t want to leave it in there because it will damage your catalytic converter and it’s not needed anyway. Been doing great with no noise ever since. (10k+mi). So in the oil department I agree with Jerry. Additional zddp additive is not needed. Our TJs have been doing fine without it.
 
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I bought my 2000 TJ new and always used Pennzoil 10w-30. At 142k miles a broken piston skirt (not an oil problem) caused me to have my motor rebuilt. I had it bored out with new pistons, a mild comp cam and new lifters. My builder said he put break-in oil with a zinc additive included. He said after break-in period of 1500 miles to go back to whatever oil I used before. I asked him about the zinc additive and he said you don’t want to leave it in there because it will damage your catalytic converter and it’s not needed anyway. Been doing great with no noise ever since. (10k+mi). So in the oil department I agree with Jerry. Additional zddp additive is not needed. Our TJs have been doing fine without it.

You can agree with gerry but Comp cams disagrees.
Like I said. One engine builders opinion will differ from another’s.

“In terms of oil selection, we recommend a high “ZDDP”, Zinc Dialkyl Dithiosphosphate, content oil for the break-in procedure and regular operation. There are several companies that are now offering specialized “race/off-road” oils, high in anti-friction and anti-wear content, to combat this specific problem. These oils carry the SL rating and contain up to 1000 ppm of Zinc/Phosphorous (the Zinc content in today’s “off-the-shelf” oils have been reduced upwards of 20% since 2001 and approximately 35% since 1997”

Link - http://www.compcams.com/technical/instructions/files/255.pdf
 
You can agree with gerry but Comp cams disagrees.
Like I said. One engine builders opinion will differ from another’s.

“In terms of oil selection, we recommend a high “ZDDP”, Zinc Dialkyl Dithiosphosphate, content oil for the break-in procedure and regular operation. There are several companies that are now offering specialized “race/off-road” oils, high in anti-friction and anti-wear content, to combat this specific problem. These oils carry the SL rating and contain up to 1000 ppm of Zinc/Phosphorous (the Zinc content in today’s “off-the-shelf” oils have been reduced upwards of 20% since 2001 and approximately 35% since 1997”

Link - http://www.compcams.com/technical/instructions/files/255.pdf

I was offering my real world experience and knowledge that my motor and countless others have been running great without any additives or high zddp oils. That’s all. Suggestions to do all that research about oil for our TJs is just dumb.
 
I was offering my real world experience and knowledge that my motor and countless others have been running great without any additives or high zddp oils. That’s all. Suggestions to do all that research about oil for our TJs is just dumb.

Seems ass backwards, but okay.
Just wanted to show your engine builder had an opinion different from your actual cam manufacture. I would guarantee comp cams has a little more knowlege of oil and flat tappets than that one engine builder.
But choosing to follow his instructions vs your cam company is your choice.

Edit- what knowledge? You blew a motor, and you haven’t inspected your new cam after 10k to see if there has been wear.
 
Seems ass backwards, but okay.
Just wanted to show your engine builder had an opinion different from your actual cam manufacture. I would guarantee comp cams has a little more knowlege of oil and flat tappets than that one engine builder.
But choosing to follow his instructions vs your cam company is your choice.

He wouldn’t be the first builder to veer from a manufacturer suggestion. And comp cams doesn’t assume this is going in a motor with a catalytic converter behind it.
Bottom line is our TJs don’t need it.
 
I don’t want to open up another can of worms but what does flat tappet mean? That could be French for all I know about engines.
 
@FirstJeep Welcome to the forum! You've seen that there are very experienced and truly helpful folks here and you'll be hard pressed to find a better TJ Forum. When opinions differ, there are just multiple voices trying to help. The best thing to do may be to listen, research on your own, then develop your own opinions. Post some pics of the new Jeep, and congratulations !
 
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Edit- what knowledge? You blew a motor, and you haven’t inspected your new cam after 10k to see if there has been wear.[/QUOTE]

My knowledge that my jeep ran great with regular 10w-30 for 145k miles before it had a broken piston skirt, not a blown motor. And knowing that in all my years of owning this TJ and researching extensively before having my motor rebuilt did I find anywhere that lack of zddp additives was a problem. Why don’t you just quit?
 
Bottom line is our TJs don’t need it.

Wow. That’s a huge statement from someone who has no idea what the hell they are talking about.
You honestly think Corp cams hasn’t run the same engine, and same cam in simulation? One using standard Dino oil, off the shelf, against oil with 1200ppm zddp and compared it?


I don’t want to open up another can of worms but what does flat tappet mean? That could be French for all I know about engines.
I don’t know the origin of the words flat tappet, I’m sure someone here had a buddy that has a buddy that told them , so it’s true. They will tell you.
It’s your cam/lifter type. You have a cam with a lobe that is crowned that pushes against a flat faced lifter up. It’s what I read/understand as a high friction design. The zddp acts as a cusion between the two surfaces(cam lobe and lifter. You’ll read that Zddp is very important to many engine builders who take great pride in building engines.
 
My Jeep is automatic and I’m from Arkansas it has 150000 miles on it. If you need any more info let me know.
Great, ok your 32RH transmission requires ATF+4, don't use any other kind of ATF... not even Mobil-1 ATF is the right stuff. Any brand is fine, just make it says ATF+4 in big letters on the front label.

Your steering system uses power steering fluid, a synthetic is good if you can find it. Don't confuse your PS system with 2003 and newer that use ATF+4 instead of power steering fluid.

As above, your transfer case uses ATF. Any type of good quality ATF is fine but since your 32RH automatic requires ATF+4, you might as well use ATF+4 in it.

Your axles require a GL-5 gear lube but they're not real fussy about the exact viscosity. A 75W-90 is fine, as is an 80W-90. If you tow a trailer or do extremely tough trails, a heavier viscosity like 85W-120, 85W-140 is fine. No worries about the need for a friction modifier if your rear axle has the Tracloc LSD. It's hard to find a GL-5 that doesn't already contain the friction modifier additive, pretty much all GL-5 gear lubes on the store shelves contain it. That said, by now the clutch pack in a Tracloc LSD would be worn out anyway so it's not likely working anyway... the clutch pack only lasts 45-50k miles before it is worn out.

For the cooling system, a very good and popular choice of long-life coolant is a 50:50 mix of Zerex G-05 and distilled water. Since there's no telling what coolant is in there now and not all coolants are compatible with each other, a complete flush of the cooling system is recommended before filling it with fresh coolant. Make sure to never use plain tap water in your coolant, use only distilled which is sold by the gallon in grocery stores. The use of tap water will cause hard water deposits to form and clog the cooling system.

Enjoy that new TJ! :)
 
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You can agree with gerry but Comp cams disagrees.
Of course they will, they install competition cams... exactly where it was already agreed that additional zddp is recommended. Are you not getting that it has ALREADY BEEN AGREED that additional zddp is recommended for aftermarket cams and stiffer valve springs?

Additional zddp is just not needed for our stock engines with stock cams.
 
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Of course they will, they install competition cams... exactly where it was already agreed that additional zddp is recommended. Are you not getting that it has ALREADY BEEN AGREED that additional zddp is recommended for aftermarket cams and stiffer valve springs?

Additional zddp is just not needed for our stock engines with stock cams.

You should read thoroughly. I was quoting someone who runs a COMP CAM. It was a direct statement to someone running a comp cam. Geez. You always hanging on my nuts.
 
We can all guess at the reasons why ZDDP levels in motor oil have been drastically reduced by the refiners but none of us have any inside knowledge or verifiable proof of that reasoning. Stating such reasons as fact is just self-aggrandizement, as is @Jerry Bransford's blanket statement that ZDDP "is just not needed for stock engines with stock cams" without any supporting evidence. Moreover, Jerry's generalization is misleading because unlike engines with roller lifters, engines with flat tappet cams and lifters do in fact benefit from small concentrations of the zinc/phosphorous additive.

To me, the most logical reason (if one needs but one reason) appears to be that ZDDP is hard on catalytic converters rather than it being unnecessary. The potential liability stemming from the inclusion of chemicals with potential to harm expensive emissions parts would seem to be of more significance to a refiner than the benefits of that additive, but that is conjecture. Further, what I am finding on the Internet are references to Federal regulations requiring that ZDDP not be included in formulations marketed for gasoline engines using catalytic converters but allowing continued use of the additive in motor oils specified for diesel engines and racing, which suggests that the "real" reason for the elimination of ZDDP from motor oil rated for gasoline engines is the governmental interest in reducing exhaust emissions.

In any event, if one wants a conventional motor oil with ZDDP one can simply use Shell Rotella T4 which is available in 10W-30, the viscosity recommended for Jeep TJ engines. However, one should be aware that it is rated by the government for diesel engines rather than gasoline engines.

https://rotella.shell.com/en_us/pro...526a3e9f8e7e4a73481fb83be9cd3a4/t4-10w-30.pdf

I used to use Shell Rotella motor oil in my CJ-7's 258 c.i. I-6 engine, but that engine has a different design than the 4.0 liter I-6 motor used in the later TJ/LJ jeeps. For my 2006 LJ I use Valvoline Maxlife synthetic blend 10W-30.
 
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Great, ok your 32RH transmission requires ATF+4, don't use any other kind of ATF... not even Mobil-1 ATF is the right stuff. Any brand is fine, just make it says ATF+4 in big letters on the front label.

Actually Jerry, you can run dextron 3, and for firmer shifts, type "F" the 32 RH's. Its predecessor was the 904 and the Mopar car guy's vary their fluids based on what type of racing they are doing or if they are daily driving...I have also seen fluids mixed, there are no absolutes when it comes to lubricants. Tim
 
We can all guess at the reasons why ZDDP levels in motor oil have been drastically reduced by the refiners but none of us have any inside knowledge or verifiable proof of that reasoning. Stating such reasons as fact is just self-aggrandizement, as is @Jerry Bransford's blanket statement that ZDDP "is just not needed for stock engines with stock cams" without any supporting evidence. Moreover, Jerry's generalization is misleading because unlike engines with roller lifters, engines with flat tappet cams and lifters do in fact benefit from small concentrations of the zinc/phosphorous additive.

To me, the most logical reason (if one needs but one reason) appears to be that ZDDP is hard on catalytic converters rather than it being unnecessary. The potential liability stemming from the inclusion of chemicals with potential to harm expensive emissions parts would seem to be of more significance to a refiner than the benefits of that additive, but that is conjecture. Further, what I am finding on the Internet are references to Federal regulations requiring that ZDDP not be included in formulations marketed for gasoline engines using catalytic converters but allowing continued use of the additive in motor oils specified for diesel engines and racing, which suggests that the "real" reason for the elimination of ZDDP from motor oil rated for gasoline engines is the governmental interest in reducing exhaust emissions.

In any event, if one wants a conventional motor oil with ZDDP one can simply use Shell Rotella T4 which is available in 10W-30, the viscosity recommended for Jeep TJ engines. However, one should be aware that it is rated by the government for diesel engines rather than gasoline engines.

https://rotella.shell.com/en_us/pro...526a3e9f8e7e4a73481fb83be9cd3a4/t4-10w-30.pdf

I used to use Shell Rotella motor oil in my CJ-7's 258 c.i. I-6 engine, but that engine has a different design than the 4.0 liter I-6 motor used in the later TJ/LJ jeeps. For my 2006 LJ I use Valvoline Maxlife synthetic blend 10W-30.
Actually the flat tappet cams and lifters are the same design between the 258 and the 4.0, they both need the ZDDP for at least the break in (and longer is what I prefer) There is a lot of info on the strokers website, it also lists the zddp levels for many of the oils commonly available and some of the not so common. If you dont have ZDDP, then you need either EDM lifters or roller lifters. Roller setups for the 4.0 are insanely expensive compared to a late model hemi or an LS, so not really an option for most and setup can be a headache for others. Tim
 
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