Reman engine upgrade options

[Ryjedavis]

2000 4.0 and the engine finally bit it. Looking to replace with a reman - have read all the posts and it seems no company is free from a few bad reviews. Had a question from those with more experience in replacing their engine - Titan engines offers the following upgrades - are any of them worth getting?

Upgraded DSS Racing forged pistons and rings ($750)
Eagle Forged Rods and ARP bolts ($395)
Torque Plating ($120)
Scorpion Off-Road Series Rocker Arms ($500)
RV Camshaft ($195)
Balanced Rotating Assembly ($200)
ARP Head Bolts ($200)
ARP Main Bolts ($110)
Double-Roller Timing Set ($110)
Brass Freeze Plugs ($30)

I’m not looking for anything fancy - same engine that lasted me the last 25 years is fine by me. Thanks!

 

[BlueC]

Assuming you want a stock replacement engine the only things on that list I see as "worth it" are brass plugs and balancing. Everything else looks like up-selling over kill.

Having said that, have you checked locally for a reputable shop to rebuild your current engine? THat would probably take a little longer, but you'd likely have a better final product.

 

[ColoJeep]

Assuming you want a stock replacement engine the only things on that list I see as "worth it" are brass plugs and balancing. Everything else looks like up-selling over kill.

Having said that, have you checked locally for a reputable shop to rebuild your current engine? THat would probably take a little longer, but you'd likely have a better final product.

I would add the roller timing chain , probably even before balancing . for a stocker .

 

[macleanflood]

What's specifically wrong with your 4.0? Bearings, pistons, new head gasket and probably a Clearwater head... weekend job...

-Mac

 

[Ryjedavis]

I’m not exactly sure - haven’t torn into it yet. I had a tick on cold start for about 2 weeks and thought was a lifter tick. It only occurred for about 5 minutes after starting. Then last week it turned into a loud knock, engine was running real rough, and then started overheating. Pulled over and towed it home - engine full of oil.



I don’t know much about engines - my entire mechanical education is based on this Jeep and I haven’t had a need to do any internal engine work yet. I assume I spun a bearing or broke a piston skirt. I never had low oil pressure, and it ran fine up until the loud knock started. I don’t have a hole in the block or oil pan so that’s good.



I’d love to rebuild it myself (if only for the fun of learning), but don’t know any good machine shops near me. Even if the heads not cracked I’d want to replace it - I have the 0331 one. I assume with the cost of a total rebuild and Clearwater head might as well get a reman - titan offers the tupy heads for 100$ more.

 

[BlueC]

I assume with the cost of a total rebuild and Clearwater head might as well get a reman - titan offers the tupy heads for 100$ more.

My issue(s) with reman stuff is you just don't know the source of the parts used or the tolerances allowed by the rebuilder. In general, reman stuff is built to minimum cost and minimum specs. It's not uncommon to see something like 5 standard bore cylinders and 1 bored 40 over in a reman, or one crank journal turned way under while the others are left standard. I've personally seen reman heads that looked like they pulled them, wiped the crud off and shipped them. Something you cannot know is where the core parts are from. Was is pulled from a well maintained running vehicle that got wrecked, or one that spent life at the dirt track on the rev limiter before being rolled down the bank into the river?

If you can find a local shop to fix what you have, then you'll know (at least more so) what the finished product is.

 

[Ryjedavis]

Thanks. Sorry if this is a stupid question - trying to figure out what to ask the machine shop if I call around. If I rebuilt it myself how much does the machine shop typically do? Or what would you recommend asking them to do? Just prep, bore, and mill it? Or do they assemble the whole short block?

 

[ColoJeep]

Thanks. Sorry if this is a stupid question - trying to figure out what to ask the machine shop if I call around. If I rebuilt it myself how much does the machine shop typically do? Or what would you recommend asking them to do? Just prep, bore, and mill it? Or do they assemble the whole short block?

They typically do the machining and you do the assembly , however they would install the pistons on the rods , assemble the valvetrain in the heads and install the cam bearings , freeze plugs and oil gallery plugs . Of course this is what a real automotive machine shop did 25 years ago . I don't have any recent experience as to what happens now or if you can even find a real shop . ( It is comparable to getting a BMB big brake kit or getting pads from Autozone ) .

 

[GoldenGorilla]

You almost certainly had a cracked piston skirt that let go. The good news is that aftermarket pistons are stronger in that area.

Generally they don't assemble the short block.

You take the disassembled block and parts to them.

Short block stuff
Clean and prep the block.
Check the piston bore or just mill for oversize pistons if you supply oversize pistons like .030 over. Done for high mileage or damaged cylinder walls.
Hone the piston bore if not bored out.
Line hone the crank and camshaft journals.
Measure for bearing clearances on the crank and rod bearings.
Balance the crankshaft/rotating assembly.

You may want the head checked to ensure it's flat. They can shave it if it is warped.

When you start looking at performance modifications like a 4.6L stroker, you might want the block decked so the piston is a certain depth in the hole at TDC, for the type of head gasket you are using.

 

[BlueC]

Thanks. Sorry if this is a stupid question - trying to figure out what to ask the machine shop if I call around. If I rebuilt it myself how much does the machine shop typically do? Or what would you recommend asking them to do? Just prep, bore, and mill it? Or do they assemble the whole short block?

It depends. Some will offer a complete engine rebuild, some night only do the machine work. It's even common for shops around me who do total rebuilds to offer a small warranty with their total rebuilds. You'll just have to talk to people and ask questions.

The first thing I suggest that you do is figure out what you're actual problem(s) is. You might not need a total rebuild, or you might find yourself in a situation where you might as well do a total rebuild.

Once you know the actual problem and repair level that you need to go to, then you can start talking to shops about the work you want done.

I will give you a word of caution, inquire about turnaround time, and get that in writing (it doesn't have to be a hard time, but reasonable estimate). If they ask if you're in a hurry, yes is your answer. If you tell them no or not really, you'll find yourself on the back burner or months or more.

 

[GoldenGorilla]

Of course this is what a real automotive machine shop did 25 years ago . I don't have any recent experience as to what happens now or if you can even find a real shop .

There are fewer of them, but they're still around in bigger cities. Modern engines are to an extent unrepairable, so I suspect they will continue to close shop. Just have to do some research and make some calls.

 

[BlueC]

There are fewer of them, but they're still around in bigger cities.

That's how it is here. 20+ years ago I knew of at least a dozen shops within a 30 min drive. Now all but about 3 have closed due to reduced business and owner death with no one taking over. But luckily for me NASCAR is a big industry around here, so guys are available.

 

[ColoJeep]

There are fewer of them, but they're still around in bigger cities. Modern engines are to an extent unrepairable, so I suspect they will continue to close shop. Just have to do some research and make some calls.

Yup , my go to shop , F&M automotive died when one of the brothers did , like 20 years ago . The marketplace changed , just like it did for T.V. repair shops in the 70's and 80's . Financially it makes total sense , just buy a new car . Not many millennials or zoomers would even change spark plugs , let alone rebuild their Aveo . That's where the crap reman . engine builders sprang up , using unskilled labor ,( that likely has english as a second language) . It is market driven .

 

[Zorba]

The marketplace changed , just like it did for T.V. repair shops in the 70's and 80's .

Yup. I worked in TV repair in the late 70s, and really wanted to make it my career. But by 1980, the handwriting was on the wall. There used to be dozens of TV shops in every town.

 

[ColoJeep]

Yup. I worked in TV repair in the late 70s, and really wanted to make it my career. But by 1980, the handwriting was on the wall. There used to be dozens of TV shops in every town.

Electronics have become cheap to produce and have huge margin building potential for the sellers. Nobody "repairs" any electronics other than @Wranglerfix and the US military .

 

[BlueC]

Not many millennials or zoomers would even change spark plugs

It's funny you say that, because I know just as many if not more older people who fit that. My dad, a "car guy", has not done a single bit of maintenance in at least 20 years. Oil change, he's going to a quick change place. Something more than that, and he's paying our cousin to fix it.

Outside of cars, if something doesn't work as it should, he's running to the nearest box store and buying the most convenient shiny replacement. That's actually how I got my most recent mower. It had a busted muffler and slung a drive belt one day, so he abandoned it in his yard and went and bought a new one, then told me to take the old one if I wanted it. $700 later I had everything that had been neglected fixed and going.

 

[BlueC]

Yup. I worked in TV repair in the late 70s, and really wanted to make it my career. But by 1980, the handwriting was on the wall. There used to be dozens of TV shops in every town.

That industry seems to have been replaced with computer repair. For a small city of about 20K, we have no less than 10 mom-and-pop computer repair shops.

 

[joneill]

Cars, TVs, computers…vacuums! One of my favorite childhood memories was going to the vacuum repair shop with my mom. The shop doubled as the areas only model train shop. What a unique combo.

There was one trip where my mom caved and bought me a Lionel searchlight car. I could sit in the living room for hours watching that thing go in circles lighting up the room. If I was smarter I would have busted that vacuum on purpose a few times.

I think that place is a bunch of condos now. But I still have that searchlight car. And I’ve never had one of our vacuums repaired.

 

[Ashim]

Thanks. Sorry if this is a stupid question - trying to figure out what to ask the machine shop if I call around. If I rebuilt it myself how much does the machine shop typically do? Or what would you recommend asking them to do? Just prep, bore, and mill it? Or do they assemble the whole short block?

You might try calling JAMSI (Jim's Automotive Machine Shop Inc.). They are in Weld County, CO and have a YouTube channel. Old school machine shop father and mechanical engineer son. Their videos show complete teardowns, machine work, assembly and testing.

 

[User4574]

2000 4.0 and the engine finally bit it. Looking to replace with a reman - have read all the posts and it seems no company is free from a few bad reviews. Had a question from those with more experience in replacing their engine - Titan engines offers the following upgrades - are any of them worth getting?

Upgraded DSS Racing forged pistons and rings ($750)
Eagle Forged Rods and ARP bolts ($395)
Torque Plating ($120)
Scorpion Off-Road Series Rocker Arms ($500)
RV Camshaft ($195)
Balanced Rotating Assembly ($200)
ARP Head Bolts ($200)
ARP Main Bolts ($110)
Double-Roller Timing Set ($110)
Brass Freeze Plugs ($30)

I’m not looking for anything fancy - same engine that lasted me the last 25 years is fine by me. Thanks!

OP all I can say is good luck. Several on the board have gotten Titan and no issues. They seem pretty legit and who I have looked at hard in the past. Depending on your tools, skill level, and how urgent you need the wheels turning again will help determine how much you want to bite off. Of the list you provided I only considered the balance and plugs. They even advise against the RV cam if you do a lot of highway driving.

Personally, mine hasn't moved since last April. I am pretty familiar with a lot mechanically but location and life have hit me in the teeth ever since to the point I am wishing I went reman or solid used. I thought I could do it and had been burned a bit by a local shop that did a swap for a different vehicle. Several rebuild shops came across as it's a big job on their time and they aren't in a hurry so it kind of soured me that direction. Between tools and parts it doesn't take long to add up. Time and weather have fought me all the way too (no garage).

FWIW if you decide used is an option I'd recommend looking at 03-04 Grand Cherokee donors as well. Same motor often low miles and will come with the TUPY.