Savvy off-road sold? (the unofficial Savvy customer support and Savvy rant thread)
- Thread starter Gollywomper
- Start date
There have been two big SCOTUS cases revolving around out-of-state sales tax collection that explain why companies are suddenly collecting sales tax on out-of-state purchases: The cases are known as Quill Corp v. North Dakota and South Dakota v. Wayfair, Inc., et. al. There are also strong pushes by states, especially low-population states like North and South Dakota, to force online sales to be subject to taxes. The states have also formed pacts with formal agreements on sales tax collections in other states.
The first SCOTUS cases, back before the Internet, ruled that only companies with a physical presence in a state had to collect taxes. The driving factor for this was that there are so many taxing entities (around 10,000 was the number I remember) that collecting, reporting, and submitting payments to these entities was too cumbersome, especially for small businesses.
Over the years, there were several efforts in Congress to create simplified rules so that out-of-state companies wouldn't have to deal directly with these numerous entities directly, but nothing was ever passed. However, since the Internet, and the use of technology, the SCOTUS, in it's last case, reconsidered the fact that techology will likely be able to reduce the cost and complexity of dealing with these entities, so they reversed their decision somewhat, and said that in certain cases (I don't recall those details), companies are responsible for collecting sales tax. I followed all of this because I once owned an Internet-based retail company, and we needed to ensure that we complied because if we didn't, we could be made to pay the sales tax liability for all sales ourselves, which would have been on the same order of magnitude of the typical profit margin, making us a non-profit organization!
There's a reason they say that "there are only two certainties in life: death and taxes." The government always wins. It just takes them decades to do so sometimes.
If you own a business that doesn't collect sales tax on out-of-state sales, make sure your accountant is paying attention because if you don't collect it, but you are supposed to do so, you'll be made to pay it later!
UKTJ
TJ Addict
both states I've lived in used to have a "use tax" that you were supposed to pay on your tax return on any goods you bought from out of state and brought in. It was self reported, on the honor system, with no way to enforce it. Honest guy that I am, I would actually download my Amazon annual order report in a spreadsheet and pay the tax I owed for the transactions where it wasn't charged, but I didn't keep organized records for every internet vendor I bought from. So they just changed their laws and pushed the retailers to collect the tax for them.
Yes - every state I ever lived in (about a half-dozen) had use tax, in addition to sales tax, and all required self-reporting that 99.9% of folks didn't do. I think the use tax was "invented" specifically to capture sales on mail order purchases (before the Internet). It was absolutely stunning to me that a legislature would think it acceptable to make citizens keep track of every purchase, and then fill out yet another tax form with complicated calculations for most folks and send it in ever year with payment. Government cares nothing about time wasted complying with regulations... Don't get me started!
Technically if you send me $20 via venmo and I have already hit the maximum amount the government says I can collect before paying taxes I am to report that. I am to keep records throughout the year and include when I file my taxes. Sound right? I just want to go on record and say I totally do this
P man, that new requirement isn't that bad. It requries cash app organizations (like Venmo, but also PayPal and eBay) to send you a 1099-K if you meet 1099 requirements (there are more than one, but the most likely one for us is that $600 in a tax year will trigger it). However, that doesn't mean that you must count it as taxable income. My accountant advised me that if I'm selling used stuff, I can just leave it off my return because, if the IRS audits me, they'll ask about it, and I'll simply have to show that everything was sold for a loss, not a profit. The IRS is trying to find people reselling stuff at a profit (if that's what you're doing, then you best keep good records or 100%, not just the profits, will be taxable).
One of my best friends is a large breed vet. He hates horses because of their temperament and says he'd rather provide care for a bull (because bulls' behaviour is consistent).
It's true..a bull wants to kill you 100 percent of the time..a horse can be your best buddy for 10 years and then snap.
I tried to get a horse for my wife one time....sadly, no one would trade.
Had a couple horses as a kid and grew up on a farm where we raised purebred bulls.
I’m to this day more worried about getting kicked by a random horse than smashed by a ton or more of pissed off bull.
I'm not sure where this turned to horse talk, but I spent a few days in ICU and a week or so in a wheelchair after getting kicked by a horse. I was a dumb kid at the time, and it was my fault, but to this day I still will not walk anywhere near the back half of a horse. As in I'm staying 20 feet back, and probably on the other side of a good fence. Hard lessons.
I watched a black angus bull knock an f250 on its side just because he was feeling spunky a few years ago.
And saw one head butt a prius on the highway that looked at him wrong a month ago while trying to herd him and his ladies back into a pasture
TBH, state tax laws were always complex because each state has historically done what's best for them (i.e., it's not a uniform system).
Additionally, sometimes the Court refuses to rule on things because they feel Congress should do so if they want things to be changed. Other times they simply muck it up because they are in over their heads when it comes to ruling on tax law cases.
IIRC, the Court in Quill spoke on how the physical presence test would cause market distortions, yet they ended up using physical presence for determining if the TP established sufficient nexus (a requirement attributed to Complete Auto). Very odd.
Wayfair overruled Quill's physical presence bright line ruling but upheld the sufficient nexus requirement. Removing the physical presence makes sense since establishing nexus really hinges on whether or not a seller "avails themselves" to the purchasers (—> Complete Auto still in play here). You can certainly do that through online ads or by having an accessible website with a virtual showroom.
The general idea is to avoid market distortions where in-state retailers lose business because in-state shoppers forum shop by purchasing items out of state tax-free. By implementing a sales tax, it levels the playing field in an attempt to help local businesses continue to have customers.
With that said, the Court smacks down state tax stuff all the time. There are unitary vs apportionment systems and arguments in play, and things get pretty entangled especially when the Court mixes up their reasoning over the years under the Due Process and Commerce clauses. The state taxation of Natives version of state taxation is even juicier as it involves states trying to tax the activities of semi-sovereign nations (and many times trying to erode their sovereign status).
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Can this thread please go back to yelling at Savvy for not shipping orders?
I’ll start. I ordered my engine skid 2 months ago, still haven’t received it. That’s fine, I knew that going in.
But why do you have 4 engine skids in stock, if you can’t ship backorders?
But why do you have 4 engine skids in stock, if you can’t ship backorders?