School me on solar

[Plumber1]

Considering looking into Solar for my home, my utility bill keeps going up and we have been running the AC a lot more than in the past. For those of you that have solar, school me on the good and bad of going with solar. Aer there companies or products to stay away from ? Is it better to purchase or lease ? Is a power wall
or some type of backup storage worth it ?

Thanks

 

[PurpleTJAZ]

So I will start out by saying that I will not school you, but will share what I have learned. First of all I do not have solar. Second I Am in Phoenix AZ also referred to as summer hell. Third I can do math.
I have researched solar multiple times because I want to save money and do the right stuff.
My findings are that the break even point is about 20 years if you buy.
If you lease or contract basically if you decide to sell your house you have to pay off the equipment in the sale or the buyer has to assume the lease , making a contract complicated.
I am 63 so investing in something that that breaks even when I’m 83 is a hard sale.
Just my two cents……..

 

[sab]

Run the numbers is the best advice. It’s been about ten years, and technology advances at a rapid pace, but back then, when I ran the numbers, even with the subsidies, it was a no brainer. Solar wasn’t worth it. It broke even about the same time it was worn out.

 

[InOmaha]

Don't try to replace your total power use. Replace main use and a couple circuits. Total replacement really drives up the cost.

Here we don't get sun like CA, so a system on a cloudy day like today would generate 10-20% of rated capacity. I couldn't save enough power in a battery today to work overnight.

I'm doing a home power use study and have a personal weather station reading solar energy at my house. My thought was to size a system to run my AC plus a margin since peak AC happens when it's hot and there are no clouds. Anything else leftover the rest of the year reduces the bill and runs some other core things like fridges, some lighting, TV, and internet. Batteries and installation are the 2 biggest expenses.

Every way I run it, there is no payback, given our lowest in the country electricity rates. I would do it more as a backup if there are outages and a hedge against the government screwing up the power supply. I like AC, so it running would be a goal. Wind is the way to go here, but there us zero chance the city lets me install that. So I would do solar up to peak AC load plus margin, plus battery to run AC overnight, with a wind hookup point and a small turbine in storage in case.

I installed one if these on the home circuits to track power use.

Emporia home energy tracker

The best way to size a solar system is to replace your main energy users with ultra efficient options. Try to cut 25% of your power use first by other means. And don't try to replace you entire power use. Main drivers that are important to you. Install it yourself and have an electrician hook it up.

The main reasons I haven't done it are the horrible 30-40 year payback here and the power company insists that they get to control it. I'm not about to pay 10s of thousands for thier resourse adequacy and capacity. I buy it, it's mine to control. If they want it, I'd lease my rooftop to them and they can pay for it.

 

[BlueC]

I have researched solar multiple times because I want to save money and do the right stuff.
My findings are that the break even point is about 20 years if you buy.
If you lease or contract basically if you decide to sell your house you have to pay off the equipment in the sale or the buyer has to assume the lease , making a contract complicated.

I work in the real estate world and see roof mounted solar systems here and there. What PurpleTJAZ, and others, stated pretty much sums up what I've found around here. What I typically hear from actual owners of these systems is the system "saves" them $50-100/monthly power bill, which they're just soo happy about, and that the systems typically cost $50-80K with an estimated lifespan of 15 years. These people almost always roll that into their 30-year mortgage or take out a second, which increases their monthly payment by $100-150. I'm no genius, but I do understand basic math... I once watched a guy come to that realization after the fact as he explained his numbers to me. Also, market data over the last 5 years says that people here are willing to pay nothing to very little extra for a house with a solar system, so don't let someone try to sell that BS.

Is a power wall
or some type of backup storage worth it ?

The whole house battery backup sounds interesting if you lose power often, but it's really rare around here, so I haven't heard much about them other than they are expensive, but so is a solar system.

 

[Daryl]

@Plumber1 if the house you speak of is in California, PG&E is your provider and you require A/C, solar is a good investment.

 

[BlueC]

solar is a good investment.

Do you have numbers to back that up?

 

[sab]

Around here, residential solar companies use high-pressure door-to-door salesmen to rush people into signing a contract without taking the time to crunch the numbers. I had a couple engineering interns that did the initial door-to-door walks the summer before their internship with us. All they were asked to do was get someone to open their door and keep it open. They then texted a "closer" that would come in and apply the pressure. They use the Kirby Vacuum sales model...

 

[JustDandee]

Seems like no actual solar customers? Then my opinion will echo some of the advise when I priced out- - ROI period seemed close to equipment life span when based on my electrical tates. Yours could run more favorably. Back up power/stand alone systems don’t have a ROI - math does not support this- they have a peace of mind component depending on your view of the zombie apocalypse potential.

I am curious about a system Roi that is sized to your lowest useage month so it’s 100% always trying to payback.

 

[DaveC]

Similar to what others have said; after revisiting it a number of times, the math just doesn't add up for me. Anything I save on my electric bill is offset by the cost of the lease/purchase of the system with no upside until at or near the end of the system's expected life span.

One thing I haven't seen mentioned is matching up the lifespan of the solar system with that of the roof. Most roofs in my area are expected to have a 20 year life span, so if you install solar, doing so at any time other than when the roof is new can open an entirely different can of worms in terms of compromising roof integrity, having to factor solar removal/replacement into any future roof repairs and vice versa, etc.

 

[sab]

One thing I haven't seen mentioned is matching up the lifespan of the solar system with that of the roof. Most roofs in my area are expected to have a 20 year life span, so if you install solar, doing so at any time other than when the roof is new can open an entirely different can of worms in terms of compromising roof integrity, having to factor solar removal/replacement into any future roof repairs and vice versa, etc.

Great point, DaveC!

 

[Apparition]

Here's a previous thread on it for reference.

https://wranglertjforum.com/threads/anyone-have-solar.73621/

 

[BlueC]

One thing I haven't seen mentioned is matching up the lifespan of the solar system with that of the roof. Most roofs in my area are expected to have a 20 year life span, so if you install solar, doing so at any time other than when the roof is new can open an entirely different can of worms in terms of compromising roof integrity, having to factor solar removal/replacement into any future roof repairs and vice versa, etc.

That is something that lenders and title holders have become aware of. Almost all of them require the roof surface (asphalt shingle or rubber) to be less than 5 years old before financing a system. I think a metal roof can be 10 or 15 years old. A new roof around here starts at $5,000 and quickly jumps up.

 

[5632]

Why have so many solar companies gone out of business? Remember that if there is no business there is no guarantee.

 

[Daryl]

Do you have numbers to back that up?

I was spending 3K/year for electric. Paid 14K for solar. Will be paid off in less than 6 years at current rates.

 

[BlueC]

Paid 14K for solar.

That would be one of the cheapest systems I've ever heard of, does that include any gov subsidies? Also, what is the real world output of the system, and what are your local electric rates?

 

[Zorba]

I talked to a "walk about" solar salesman. My first question was about insurance. He asked me who my InsCo was. I told him, "For a house this old, there's only one. The InsCo of last resort." He didn't know who that was (Its Citizen's - EVERYONE in Florida knows that). I told him, if you don't know the answer to that, how can you have a conversation with any degree of intelligence. I suggest you get educated - there's the door...

There's a shit ton of shuck and jive involved, and as soon as the shuck and jive starts, I'm done.

 

[Daryl]

That would be one of the cheapest systems I've ever heard of, does that include any gov subsidies? Also, what is the real world output of the system, and what are your local electric rates?

Yes, with the tax credit. It’s a 6KW system that puts out 4.5KW. We have the highest rates in the US. Average rate is .46c/KWH

 

[srimes]

Best I can tell, paying someone to put in new solar only makes financial sense if 1) there are heavy government subsidies , or 2) the house is somewhat far from a power line.

Lots of stories lately about install companies going under as the government subsidies are evaporating.

I would like solar one day, mainly for power backup when the grid goes down.

I do think it can be a good investment if you buy used panels. and DIY the bulk of the install.

 

[macleanflood]

I've installed several solar systems. You're basically going from paying the power company for electricity to paying off a loan for the panels. Unless you have $20k sitting around.

Technology keeps improving.

Here in Oregon it doesn't make any sense to generate too much power. You don't get to run the meter backwards...so no money from the power company. Oregon makes the power companies pay the state for your power, then uses that money to subsidize low income folks' power bills.

I'm waiting for better battery technology. Looks like we're getting close to some promising tech.

-Mac