This is why your dash speakers suck
- Thread starter 89grand
- Start date
OP
Those won't really help us. They're designed to fill the gap between the speaker and the door panel of many cars, and I have my doubts that they are effective there either.
F Troop
TJ Enthusiast
martinjg98
Member
@89grand, I liked the video and agree there is a difference. Did you use the factory speaker baffles or no? I wonder if that's why they put those baffles in there, to seal out off-axis frequencies. I don't have mine currently (my dog ate them, actually).
Either way, I think I will do this using leftover Noico Green 170 mil sound/heat-proofing foam and see if there is a difference.
I also stuffed the cavities with poly from a pillow, FWIW.
Either way, I think I will do this using leftover Noico Green 170 mil sound/heat-proofing foam and see if there is a difference.
I also stuffed the cavities with poly from a pillow, FWIW.
OP
I'm using adapters that allow a 5.25" to be installed in the dash. I believe I got mine from ebay many years ago, but they are quite common. Either just like these, or very similar. Mine is a 2000, before they started using those enclosure things. I wouldn't use them if you had them. The speaker needs to breathe, and those small enclosures just choke the speaker and it causes peaky, bad sounding frequency response. Actually my adapters are a poly material, not metal. Look for something not thin metal. So the link below may not be a good choice or it could be, I can't tell how thin they are.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B009DHE462/?tag=wranglerorg-20
The biggest opening is on the side, I used a piece of flashing material from Home Depot to mostly cover that hole which I believe is shown in one of the pics I posted, then completely covered it, and all other openings, not matter how small with sound deadener.
I'd remove the polyfill. Honestly it doesn't do anything of value in this application, and will just become a ball of dust covered polyfill. I know, I wasted my time doing it many years ago.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B009DHE462/?tag=wranglerorg-20
The biggest opening is on the side, I used a piece of flashing material from Home Depot to mostly cover that hole which I believe is shown in one of the pics I posted, then completely covered it, and all other openings, not matter how small with sound deadener.
I'd remove the polyfill. Honestly it doesn't do anything of value in this application, and will just become a ball of dust covered polyfill. I know, I wasted my time doing it many years ago.
I know this thread hasn't been posted in for a while but I plan on doing this to my TJ next week and I'm curious if you did anything regarding the soundbar. Would putting some sound deadening material inside the soundbar make any difference?
I agree. More times than not, there seems to be some confusion and/or misunderstanding with this subject. Sure, our Jeeps don't have the best design for audio, and most likely won't be winning any SPL contests, but to say that the poor sound and/or poor "bass" is due to it being 4" or 4x6" size, that is false. The FaitalPro speakers that I'm using in mine are 3", but they produce a very respectable sound. But, just like with any speaker, if those aren't used in such a way to make their design specs produce as best as possible, they will sound like garbage too. There are many frequencies beyond the 40-60Hz that we hear from added subwoofers. More times than not, those frequencies are lost, and make for a crappy sounding system that is assumed to be the result of being in a Wrangler.
I saw that you don't intend to use a dsp and time alignment, but man, that makes a world of difference in our Jeeps. Since you mentioned before that you have a set of FaitalPros, and now seeing Tang Band mentioned, I figure you're familiar with the dsp that Dayton Audio came out with. I was running that dsp with bluetooth in mine, and using a JL Audio MX500.4. I was highly impressed. The sound actually brought more of my interest back into listening to music. Without that full, distinctive sound, I typically don't turn the volume up very much at all, unless I'm trying to drown out road noise. If you haven't looked into it, check it out. When I still had mine, they were still working out some bugs, so I'm unsure of where it stands now, but it's price and functionality is well worth looking into.
Here's some pictures from mine that are thread-related.
I cut out the rear of the OE pod, doing something along the same lines as you mentioned with your thread. Doing this "lifted" the sound, making it sound a bit like top mounted dash speakers are installed also.
And here's the Dayton Audio DSP that I mounted behind the instrument cluster.
B00mb00m
The Church of Cutting Brakes of Atlas-Front Digs
Supporting Member
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Hahaha, i drive with no music all the time just because of this. I swear bolts loosen as fast as I tighten them!
OP
I believe I put some in there, but I honestly don't think it does much. Better than using it in the dash though, as that does nothing at all but collect dust.
OP
Bedhed, I am using DSP and t/a on my front dash woofers and a-pillar Tang Bands. I'm running a Kicker KEY180.4 amp bi-amping the front speakers, and it comes with a microphone to do eq and t/a. The results are pretty good. It's hard to get depth to the sound, but that's because the dash is not deep at all, so you're really close to the speakers, but it helped a great deal.
My sound bar speakers are ran off the headunit, and turned down quite a bit, so no DSP on them, or my powered sub.
I use a miniDSP 6x8 in my Magnum, which is similar to the Dayton unit. It looks like you have a pretty good setup.
My sound bar speakers are ran off the headunit, and turned down quite a bit, so no DSP on them, or my powered sub.
I use a miniDSP 6x8 in my Magnum, which is similar to the Dayton unit. It looks like you have a pretty good setup.
I like what you are doing, but I just have to chime in with Audiotec Fischer. They make many styles of amp/dsps and their stuff is over the top good. If you ever do an upgrade I would encourage you check out there Match line of DSP/amps.
https://www.audiotec-fischer.de/en/match/amplifiers/
When I replaced my sound bar speakers, I added some Dynamat inside the sound bar and also added polyfill. Did it make a noticeable difference? Maybe, maybe not.
I also pulled the interior light in the middle (mine’s an 02) and sealed up the back of the light housing by gluing plastic to the back. Again, it may not have made a difference but every little bit helps.
Do you have a picture already posted with the Tang Bands installed? I'd like to see those. That's the first time hearing of that dsp. I'd like to give one of those a try. Anything that you don't like about it?
Yeah, they do make some really nice products. I've used one of their Helix dsp units before, but I didn't know about their new line of amplifier/dsps until last weekend. I watched a video review of one of their new Match amps. I can't recall which model. With so much in such packed into such a tiny package, it nearly seemed to good to be true.
To expand on what 89grand is talking about, building a speaker in an enclosure is the most common way of doing it. A box, more or less, with the driver(s) mounted on the face (baffle).
One variation on that, commonly used for subwoofers in a home theater setup, is called infinite baffle. Basically you install your subwoofer drivers in a wall, floor, or ceiling. With no box behind them, just the wall/floor/ceiling separating the front from the back. This is a pain to install and setup but it works very well. That's essentially what sealing up the gaps around the Wrangler speaker does. You don't have an enclosure behind it, but at least you're separating the front and rear waves, which does indeed enhance bass response.
Then there's open baffle, where there's no box, and nothing separating the front and rear wave. I use speakers like this for my home theater. They look like this.
I know, that breaks all the rules, but the drivers for the MTM portion of these are designed for this type of application. And note that this is a three way design. With the two bass drivers in a sealed enclosure, because while a properly designed open baffle can sound very good the one thing it sucks at is bass.
You could in theory select a driver for use in the Wrangler with a high QTS that would work ok in the stock setup. But that would likely be more expensive than it was worth.
One variation on that, commonly used for subwoofers in a home theater setup, is called infinite baffle. Basically you install your subwoofer drivers in a wall, floor, or ceiling. With no box behind them, just the wall/floor/ceiling separating the front from the back. This is a pain to install and setup but it works very well. That's essentially what sealing up the gaps around the Wrangler speaker does. You don't have an enclosure behind it, but at least you're separating the front and rear waves, which does indeed enhance bass response.
Then there's open baffle, where there's no box, and nothing separating the front and rear wave. I use speakers like this for my home theater. They look like this.
I know, that breaks all the rules, but the drivers for the MTM portion of these are designed for this type of application. And note that this is a three way design. With the two bass drivers in a sealed enclosure, because while a properly designed open baffle can sound very good the one thing it sucks at is bass.
You could in theory select a driver for use in the Wrangler with a high QTS that would work ok in the stock setup. But that would likely be more expensive than it was worth.
It is amazing, I have that M 5DSP now and it is mind blowing how powerful it is, and the amazing DSP as well, for something the size of baseball card. If you like fidgeting with audio this is the way to go.
I realize this is an old thread, but I have first-hand experience along with technical expertise that validates what the OP is saying. I've measured the dash speakers with a calibrated microphone and REW, which is a free acoustic measurement software used by amateurs and professionals alike. The OP is 100% correct about the loss of low-frequency response. But I would add, it isn't just low-frequency cancellation. Any frequency that the speaker is playing from the woofer cone is subject to cancellation because the back wave of the speaker is the opposite of the front wave and they are not intended to blend together. It was years ago, so I don't have the measurements that I took that compared factory install vs sealing off the back wave of the speaker in a TJ, but I can tell you that it is a drastic improvement in sound quality. I've built and tuned vehicles that have won numerous sound quality competitions at the regional level and have multiple podium finishes at the world championship level so I do have specific car audio experience. Not trying to brag, but hoping that what I am sharing can be trusted enough that someone will try what the OP has posted so you can realize the drastic sound quality improvement. Just do it, you will not be disappointed.
Thedogsbollocks
TJ Enthusiast
Exactly and I’d add that the factory speaker are completely garbage...as are the vast majority of oem speakers. You do what you like to them they will always sound crap.A Wrangler is not exactly a great environment for great sound. Worrying about front/rear wave cancellation for the TJ's front speakers is like worrying about an ingrown toenail when you are having a heart attack. And it's really the front speaker's very small size in an oval configuration that causes the lack of bass, not the fact the rear is open to the front for wave cancellation. A small 4x6 oval speaker, even a 5.25" if you convert the front to that better size & shape, is not going to put out meaningful bass even with a properly ported sealed enclosure. I worked in the very high-end pro-level audio industry for a while providing audio systems for large venue environments like auditoriums & stadiums. I have constructed/built large tube and solid state amplifiers & acoustic suspension speakers so it's a subject I'm familiar with. I'm just happy if I can hear my stereo in my open Jeep on the highway. I wouldn't mind a bigger amplifier like I installed into my previous TJ but I'm sure not going to bother trying to enclose the front speakers for a barely perceptible improvement. Worry about it in my house? Sure.
Thedogsbollocks
TJ Enthusiast
Your point on the sealed pods is wrong. These are the ones you can buy at all auto stores. Those sealed pods as you call them are far from sealed. I agree with some of your points but the point about Standing waves and cancelling each other out in this application is just nonsense. Your oem speaker sound crap simply because they are crap.
You’re talking about highs and mids only here at best...come on?
Guys any after market speaker will sound far better than the stock ones and the pods will help greatly in making sure your mid bass such as it is in a small speaker gets through the grills and not lost in a void.
Thedogsbollocks
TJ Enthusiast
And you’re talking about the same application...the speakers in the dash? Tell me what frequencies did get from that woofer lol.