Track Bar Angle

[Irun]

I've seen multiple posts here about drop pitman arms and how they're bad. I understand why, but this made me wonder about what the degree range is for a properly setup track bar. If you measure the relationship between the tie rod and track bar, what should that angle be?

 

[Jerry Bransford]

You want the operating planes of the tie rod and drag link to be parallel to each other. The tie rod angle doesn't figure into that.

 

[Irun]

You want the operating planes of the tie rod and drag link to be parallel to each other. The tie rod angle doesn't figure into that.

Interesting. I've have seen this mentioned, but also have seen mention of the track bar being to shallow, when a drop pitman arm is used. Just trying to debunk or make sense of that.

 

[Jerry Bransford]

If you install a dropped Pitman arm, that drops the top of the drag link so it's no longer parallel to the track bar.

 

[Irun]

If you install a dropped Pitman arm, that drops the top of the drag link so it's no longer parallel to the track bar.

View attachment 183467

The relationship of the pitman arm to the drag link is what I was missing.

 

[cpwolf]

You want the operating planes of the tie rod and drag link to be parallel to each other. The tie rod angle doesn't figure into that.

just did this based on Jerry’s suggestions on this. PO ha a drop pitman on my 05. Went To a factory arm and I didn’t realize how bad the bump steer was, totally cleaned it up.

now my Drag Link and Tie Rod are parallel, took before and afters, made a huge improvement

 

[Irun]

just did this based on Jerry’s suggestions on this. PO ha a drop pitman on my 05. Went To a factory arm and I didn’t realize how bad the bump steer was, totally cleaned it up.

now my Drag Link and Tie Rod are parallel, took before and afters, made a huge improvement

Share the pictures for communal knowledge!

 

[Jerry Bransford]

just did this based on Jerry’s suggestions on this. PO ha a drop pitman on my 05. Went To a factory arm and I didn’t realize how bad the bump steer was, totally cleaned it up.

now my Drag Link and Tie Rod are parallel, took before and afters, made a huge improvement

Good job, just a minor typo... you got your drag link and track bar (not tie rod) parallel.

 

[cpwolf]

Good job, just a minor typo... you got your drag link and track bar (not tie rod) parallel.

Ha! Yeah, they just cancelled H

Good job, just a minor typo... you got your drag link and track bar (not tie rod) parallel.

Yeah, got me. Track Bar and Drag Link. I even drew the pictures, ha.
Before with Drop Pitman Arm


And after with a factory Pitman Arm.



This is only for a couple weeks, I have a whole new Drag Link and ZJ Tie Rod, with the Pitman arm replaced already this will make all new when I get this on Saturday. My wife is not a fan of the cost of this site...ha.

 

[cpwolf]

Share the pictures for communal knowledge!

Sorry, got them up now, was on the phone reading and had pics with the lines on my laptop.

 

[jjvw]

If you look closely enough, you will see that the stock drag link and the track bar are neither perfectly parallel nor the same length. What they are is in a good relationship to each other to provide good steering. As long as the pitman arm and the mounts are stock, everything will work well even when lifted.

 

[Cedar128]

Good job, just a minor typo... you got your drag link and track bar (not tie rod) parallel.

You made the same typo in your first post.

 

[cpwolf]

If you look closely enough, you will see that the stock drag link and the track bar are neither perfectly parallel nor the same length. What they are is in a good relationship to each other to provide good steering. As long as the pitman arm and the mounts are stock, everything will work well even when lifted.

Not sure they have to be the same length....to be considered parallel, but I can’t remember if that was calculus or geometry where you plotted that in High School, ha, long time ago.

The track bar on mine I believe is a Rubicon Express and isn’t straight, hence cannot be parallel if we are being Ricky tack.

The Theoretical line between the mount ends of each....looks pretty parallel.

I follow you though, either way made my TJ drive a lot better.

 

[jjvw]

Not sure they have to be the same length....to be considered parallel, but I can’t remember if that was calculus or geometry where you plotted that in High School, ha, long time ago.

The track bar on mine I believe is a Rubicon Express and isn’t straight, hence cannot be parallel if we are being Ricky tack.

The Theoretical line between the mount ends of each....looks pretty parallel.

I follow you though, either way made my TJ drive a lot better.

They don't need to be the same length to be parallel. And they aren't really parallel either. The bars and links do not need to be straight sticks either. What matters is that the factory figured out the relationships between the mounts and we are better off not disrupting that by moving the mounting points around.

 

[AndyG]

They don't need to be the same length to be parallel. And they aren't really parallel either. The bars and links do not need to be straight sticks either. What matters is that the factory figured out the relationships between the mounts and we are better off not disrupting that by moving the mounting points around.

This is it in a nutshell.

A dropped pitman arm was originally designed with the concept of not pulling the entire Y linkage upward and consequently forcing toe in, which holds true at really tall lifts ,like 6-8". Think of a coat hanger being pulled upward....gets shorter fast, doesn't it?

They are included with some lift kits as a standard , one size fits all component and a dropped mount is included to keep the degrees of angle (whatever it is) about the same. As @jjvw said, it isn't dead parallel, but it works.

For some reason the dropped pitman arm gets used but the dropped mount rarely does...often because it is too much work or misunderstood.

At 4" or less , it's redundant to do both the dropped arm and mount when stock works fine , and to do the dropped pitman only leads to adventures in bumpsteer, coming soon to a TJ near you.

I've had all 3 set ups ,both components dropped, dropped pitman only , and stock.... and of the 3 , you don't want just a dropped pitman arm only.

 

[AndyG]

You want the operating planes of the tie rod and drag link to be parallel to each other. The tie rod angle doesn't figure into that.

Operating planes.

Read that again. 4 syllables in one word . That is Jerry Bransford right there buddy, master at work.

Operating planes. I'm using that tomorrow somehow.

There is no way Jerry is getting paid near enough.

 

[cpwolf]

If you look closely enough, you will see that the stock drag link and the track bar are neither perfectly parallel nor the same length.

There is no such thing as “perfectly parallel”. two lines are either parallel .....or they are not. There’s no “perfectly” or not so perfectly. Lines either go on forever without ever intersecting, or the do intersect.

 

[Jerry Bransford]

There is no such thing as “perfectly parallel”. two lines are either parallel .....or they are not. There’s no “perfectly” or not so perfectly. Lines either go on forever without ever intersecting, or the do intersect.

TMI for a Jeep forum.

 

[jjvw]

This is it in a nutshell.

A dropped pitman arm was originally designed with the concept of not pulling the entire Y linkage upward and consequently forcing toe in, which holds true at really tall lifts ,like 6-8". Think of a coat hanger being pulled upward....gets shorter fast, doesn't it?

They are included with some lift kits as a standard , one size fits all component and a dropped mount is included to keep the degrees of angle (whatever it is) about the same. As @jjvw said, it isn't dead parallel, but it works.

For some reason the dropped pitman arm gets used but the dropped mount rarely does...often because it is too much work or misunderstood.

At 4" or less , it's redundant to do both the dropped arm and mount when stock works fine , and to do the dropped pitman only leads to adventures in bumpsteer, coming soon to a TJ near you.

I've had all 3 set ups ,both components dropped, dropped pitman only , and stock.... and of the 3 , you don't want just a dropped pitman arm only.

The drop pitman arm predates the TJ and it's y link steering. It serves a purpose on steering and suspension setups that do not use a track bar.

 

[AndyG]

The drop pitman arm predates the TJ and it's y link steering. It serves a purpose on steering and suspension setups that do not use a track bar.

Yes like a typical linkage that doesn't need pulled upward. It could create different operating planes.